S3 Ep028 Public Accommodations for Marginalized Groups: Designing for Neurodiversity and Disability with Han Malyn, Pt4
In the final segment of our interview (part 4 of 4), Han Malyn (they/them) speaks with Kinderpublic about the experience of neurodivergence in public and professional spaces, and examples of design and operational choices that can significantly improve accessibility. We discuss:
How being more aware of sensory experiences can help us reshape our interior environments;
Essential architectural elements in an inclusive space;
Why inclusion does not always mean physically present;
The self-learning project we can all undertake to help improve our shared spaces.
Bio:
Han (they/them) has worked and volunteered in the nonprofit sector for 15+ years across a broad range of sectors, including visual arts, arts education, the LGBTQI+ community, human rights, and ending poverty. They are based in the greater DC area.
“
A thing that I've used a lot with gender, but that applies across the board really is, “I don't need you to understand it, I just need you to respect it.” So I use that in terms of being non-binary because people will be like, “Well, I just don't get it.” And I'm like, “Well, I don't need you to, I just need you to use the right pronouns. Doesn't hurt you to do that.”
-Han Malyn
Transcript
Season 3, Episode 28 (Part 4 of 4) Public Accommodations for Marginalized Groups: Designing for Neurodiversity and Disability with Han Malyn
Han Malyn (they/them):
A thing that I've used a lot with gender, but that applies across the board really is, “I don't need you to understand it, I just need you to respect it.” So I use that in terms of being non-binary because people will be like, “Well, I just don't get it.” And I'm like, “Well, I don't need you to, I just need you to use the right pronouns. Doesn't hurt you to do that.”
And I think the same thing with anything where you're like, you know, if you have chronic pain and people are like, “I just don't understand how you could be in so much pain that you can't sit in a chair.” I'm like, “People don't need you to understand that. They just need you to accept that they need to go be someplace else and lay down, or stretch, or do some yoga or whatever, before they're gonna be able to do that again, or that they might need to go home.”
And just sort of the acknowledgement to trust other people's lived experiences. And I think that that's likelier in spaces where what you're already doing is trying to make the world a better place in one way or another.
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, she/her:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
Our guest is Han Malyn, who has worked and volunteered in the nonprofit sector for over 15 years, across a broad range of areas, including visual arts, arts education, the LGBTQI+ community, human rights, and ending poverty. Han has dual degrees in Studio Art and Economics from Kalamazoo College, and a masters degree in Non Profit Arts Administration from NYU.
Han’s pronouns are they/them, my pronouns are she/her.
In this episode, we conclude our conversation with Han about the experience of neurodivergence in public space. They share details about the kinds of design and operational choices that would significantly improve accessibility for neurodivergent and disabled individuals, including resources, modifications to schedules, work location flexibility, sensory exposures, and specific elements of architectural design.
One thing I would like to specifically point out is that several times in our interview over the past 4 episodes, Han has described the kind of pushback, lack of empathy, and lack of accommodations very commonly experienced by individuals with invisible disabilities. This brings up a fact that is rarely addressed in public space: not all disabilities or differences are visible. Not all disabilities or differences are permanent. Not all abilities are permanent. And that is normal.
Our society creates obstacles to participation through lack of awareness and indifference. But we can instead commit to inclusion, commit to flexibility, and demonstrate the empathy necessary to better include all people in our public spaces.
Most importantly, let’s stop pushing the work of disability inclusion onto the disability community. When we improve, collectively, our awareness of human diversity and diverse experiences, we can step up and preemptively offer an array of supports that go beyond ADA compliance, and let people self-identify and use them as needed. By doing this, as Han points out, we model what it looks like to trust people’s lived experiences. And that will have a profound impact on the quality of our public space.
Thank you for joining us! I hope you find this supportive and helpful.
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan, opening interview:
Looking back, what kinds of issues did you experience in public spaces or work spaces that made them feel less comfortable? If you have a couple specific things that really stand out to you.
Han Malyn:
Yeah. Open office spaces.
Cevan:
Ugh. <disapproving>
Han Malyn:
Oh my god. Like, so many people think that's like the greatest solution. Not if you can't concentrate if there are sounds around you! Like I ended up having to just keep headphones in with rain sounds all the time when I was in an open office setting, because there were people that were on the phone for work all the time next to me. And I was like, I cannot do my job with that going on. And it's constantly distracting.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Han Malyn:
Places that didn't have someplace dark or quiet that I could go if something triggered either autistic reactions or migraines. Again, that is a big thing. You know, if I was someplace and a migraine started to come on, if I didn't have someplace that I could go to, like, take my medication and let it kick in, it was a real problem.
I remember having to take the subway home during a migraine because I couldn't be at work, there was no place for me to go, but it was the only way I had to get home because I lived in New York and I didn't have the money to pay for a cab. And it was such a hellish experience.
And it's like, again, the kinds of spaces that can be used for multipurposes. Now, a lot of places have nursing rooms that can also be used as a space that you can go sit, if you need someplace quiet. And more places are acknowledging that those are needs. But for a long time they weren't. Especially when I was working in smaller places where it was like, well, we have what we have, which I both understand, and also, it made it harder to work some places, that people wore perfumes, or where, I don't know, temperature controls were really messed up. Places where people would consistently interrupt you when you're working, and if you are a person who needs to hyperfocus to get things done, it makes it really impossible to do your job.
I also have chronic respiratory issues, and by the time I went to Amnesty, I interviewed with bronchitis, because I had bronchitis just anytime someone sneezed near me. And so I had an understanding from the very beginning that if I got bronchitis, I would work from home, before working from home was as common as it is, obviously, in covid times. Because otherwise, I just would not work, I would be out for a third of the year because I lived in New York and I could not keep myself away from people that were going to sneeze in my general direction. Ergo, I had bronchitis at least two months out of the year.
Cevan:
Yes.
Han Malyn:
But that wasn't an option every place. And so, <laugh> 10 days of combined sick and vacation time meant I just didn't have vacation time, because I had to save it because I have chronic illnesses.
Cevan:
Yeah.
Han Malyn:
And stuff would come up. And so it's just like, “Well, it sucks to be you. That's your problem, not ours.” But that kind of thing is common, where places will combine your paid time off, and say sick time and vacation time are the same thing, and not account for the fact that a lot of people have chronic illnesses.
And what you are saying is, “You don't deserve vacation time because you're sick.”
Cevan:
This was also pre-covid, so the amount of remote work access was drastically less. And there was a lot of emphasis, I feel, especially in certain, certain fields, there was a lot of emphasis on having to be physically in the office.
Han Malyn:
Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, again, I think I was lucky because one, it was a human rights organization, and two, it was a global organization. And so they were used to having people working from a lot of different places.
Covid has been an absolute nightmare worldwide for everybody. Definitely. Especially for vulnerable populations and people who are immunocompromised, but one very small silver lining that came out of it is that a lot of people now take chronic respiratory illnesses more seriously, because I used to get people who would be mad or hurt feeling-ed if I wouldn't hang out with them because they had a cold, because they'd think I was being dramatic. And I was like, you don't understand, you're cold, that's going to clear up in four days, will have me down for two months.
Like, that is going to mean I can't go to somebody's wedding. That is going to mean that I use up all my sick time and can't go on vacation this year. And now, if I am going to hang out with somebody and they're like, “Oh, my kid has a cold,” and I say, “Oh, okay, then I can't hang out with you.” They go, “Totally understand, no big deal.”
Which has been like one of the very few things that I think is positive that has come out of this, is people have realized that some of these things that they always thought were people being dramatic aren't, and can kill you.
Cevan:
Again, it's not a character flaw. <laughing>
Han Malyn:
Exactly. <laugh> I, I, you know, I would replace my entire respiratory system if I could, but that's not an option. And so yeah. <laugh>
Cevan:
Right. You mentioned one of the ways that you could kind of get through an open floor work plan was to use headphones…
Han Malyn:
Which some places won't let you. Yeah.
Cevan:
…Yeah, I was just going to say!
So there was, next door to where you were maybe working in that open floor plan <laugh> with the rain in your ears, there was another person in another organization affiliated with yours that I knew that would wear the headphones to indicate that she was working on something that required a lot of processing power, and that if she was interrupted, she would have to start all over again.
Han Malyn:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Cevan:
So, she called it being ‘in the rabbit hole’. <laugh>
Han Malyn:
I love that. Yeah.
Cevan:
And don't, don't interrupt her.
But I'm curious to hear from you, was that stigmatized at all? Like, did people find it to be not social, or off-putting?
Han Malyn:
I think that, yeah, it, it has depended. I have not gotten a lot of pushback on it. I definitely have worked places where that was, like, not allowed or was discouraged, because they thought that, you know, if you were listening to something, you couldn't possibly be paying attention to your job.
But I think for the most part, because a lot of what I do is writing based, people understand that I need to be ‘in the zone’ and not interrupted a lot, because especially when you're doing technical writing, I'm often writing about things that I'm not all that well versed in. I didn't say this at the beginning, but primarily, I am an institutional fundraiser, so I do grant writing and a lot of times it's on things that I'm not a subject matter expert in. My job is to translate the programmatic speech to the foundations and kind of make sure that people who really know their stuff are framing it in a way that makes sense to other audiences and fits the guidelines they're looking for.
And to do that, I really have to be able to concentrate because you can't edit something that was written in French and translated and is also about a topic that you don't understand that well with constant interruptions. It's just not possible. So I've been very lucky that people have understood that, but I think there are definitely jobs where that's not the case and where you will get a lot of pushback or be told you're not allowed to wear headphones because they think it, you're not paying attention if you are.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> We talked about vacation and sick time structure a little bit, but I'm curious also about the daytime work schedule. Did you find break structures or the timing of the workday to be problematic at all? Like for instance, if you were having some physical discomfort and you had to step away to any available darker, quieter place, was that ever scrutinized because people didn't understand why you needed to take this extra break? Or…?
Han Malyn:
Early in my career, that is probably something I encountered, but I again, have been very lucky that I went into sectors that are very much sort of care-based, sectors that are about caring for other human beings and access to things for other human beings. And so I think that in those spaces you are much less likely to get pushback. And even when people don't fully understand, they are usually better versed in accepting that people need what they need, whether they get it or not.
A thing that I've used a lot with gender, but that applies across the board really is, “I don't need you to understand it, I just need you to respect it.”
Cevan:
Love that.
Han Malyn:
So I use that in terms of being non-binary because people will be like, “Well, I just don't get it.” And I'm like, “Well, I don't need you to, I just need you to use the right pronouns. Doesn't hurt you to do that.”
And I think the same thing with anything where you're like, you know, if you have chronic pain and people are like, “I just don't understand how you could be in so much pain that you can't sit in a chair.” I'm like, “People don't need you to understand that. They just need you to accept that they need to go be someplace else and lay down, or stretch, or do some yoga or whatever, before they're gonna be able to do that again, or that they might need to go home.”
And just sort of the acknowledgement to trust other people's lived experiences. And I think that that's likelier in spaces where what you're already doing is trying to make the world a better place in one way or another. So I've, I've been very lucky, I think, in that
Cevan:
We've touched on this a little bit as well, but I'm going to ask one more time. Are there certain amenities that you look for to know that a space will be comfortable for you? And have you modified the way that you participate in public spaces?
Han Malyn:
From a queer identity perspective, non-gendered bathrooms is my number one. Any place that, like, advertises that they have non-gendered bathrooms, immediately gets like 10 bonus points on my scale of, “Am I going to go there or not?” Because it just, it illustrates the level of literacy that this is something they're aware of and care about.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Han Malyn:
So that's a big one for me. And I think, you know, there are other ones, like I said, I, I do look for businesses that are LGBTQ owned or state publicly that they're LGBTQ supportive and positive and you know, that those are places that actively care enough to tell us we are safe there.
Cevan:
Yep.
Han Malyn:
So that is a hundred percent something that I look for. And yeah, in terms of other spaces, now that I'm aware of the Autism stuff, I think a lot of it is I, I look for places where there is an option to get away if I need to. I try not to put myself in places where if something goes wrong, I'm out of luck.
So I do still go to places where that's not necessarily the case, but if I am doing that, I will make sure I have someone with me who can get me out if necessary.
So like, you know, my, when we moved to the DC area, my spouse didn't really know how to drive because he didn't come from a car culture. I came of age in Detroit, and so like…
Cevan:
<laughing>
Han Malyn:
…Driving was a big part of my life.
Cevan:
Right. <laughing> You drove when you were 12. <laughing>
Han Malyn:
Yeah. <laughing> Michigan doesn't believe in public transit. If you don't own a car, you're, you're anti Michigan.
Cevan:
Right. <laughing>
Han Malyn:
So I always knew how to do that, and he didn't really. And then we were in New York for nine years, so it didn't really matter, you know, if we were renting a car someplace, I drove, but it happened rarely.
And when we moved to DC, we've been here for not all that long, he had a license, but he hadn't really driven in probably over a decade, and I said, “I need you to take a refresher course because we’re someplace that is not as public transit friendly. And if something happens and I get a migraine or I am having a meltdown, or, you know, whatever's going on, we're stranded.”
Like we could be on a road trip somewhere and something could go wrong for whatever reason, and we would just be stuck. And so that's a thing that I'm more aware of now, in terms of like, I need to have somebody with me that can take over control of getting us out, getting me home, getting us someplace safe if something goes wrong. Because there's not always gonna be access.
And so my spouse comes with me when I get my haircut because haircuts can be very overwhelming for Autistic people. Which again, there, there's an example of something that I always thought was me being weak that actually is very understandable, is getting haircuts can be really hard for Autistic people because of sensory issues, and because it requires usually small talk which can be very, very hard to do if you are socially anxious and not great at reading people.
And so I would just not, for long periods of time. During covid, I just shaved the sides of my head myself. But, you know, going back to a barber and finding a new one was really difficult for me. In New York, I went to a, like, specifically queer friendly barber. There isn't one near where I live, they do exist, but they’re in downtown DC, I'm not near them.
And so we have a barbershop that's across the street that has been perfectly fine, and like they've been great, but I couldn't bring myself to go there by myself. I struggled to get myself to book appointments. So he just took that on for me, goes at the same time as me and makes the appointment for me and makes sure that I, you know, get a person that I've worked with before so that I'm not stressing out about it being a new person.
The person who cuts my hair actually does not speak that much English, which works out really well for me because he knows my haircut and I don't have to make small talk because there's a language barrier, which is something that would bother a lot of people, but for me actually works out really well. It takes a level of the stress off.
But yeah, so I think that it's sort of a mix of looking for places that advertise things that let me know that they are welcoming to me, and working on a buddy system and having an exit plan if they aren't
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Someone I know who cuts hair has a sign up indicating to just ask for a silent appointment, which I thought was so nice, because….
Han Malyn:
That's so nice.
Cevan:
It's a posted sign.
Han Malyn:
Yeah.
Cevan:
All you have to do is point at it.
Han Malyn:
Excellent. Yeah.
I had to go to the dentist recently and I did not say outright, I have sensory issues, but I was, you know, it was allergies, I was really congested, I couldn't be tipped on my back for very long. And so I brought that up and they were kind of like, okay, yeah yeah yeah, just raise your left hand if you need to take a break and whatever. And I would do that.
But I don't know if it was how I spoke about it or what, but the dentist picked up on the fact that I- or I guess probably a dental hygienist- but picked up on the fact somehow that I was having sensory issues. And so, would do things like, you know, “Okay, there's going to be some pressure and cold.” And like, would just warn me ahead of time like, “Okay, now you're going to experience these sensations.” Which was so helpful because I didn't have to be as like, “Brace yourself. You don't know what's gonna be happening inside of your face at this moment.”
And I know a lot of tattoo artists do that, but it's not as common in things like dentistry. And it made me feel more positive about the practice as a whole because I was like, okay, these are people that are aware that some people need a heads up if you're about to do something unexpected in their mouth.
Cevan:
In your face.
Han Malyn:
Yeah. Like, “It is inside my head and I would like to know what's happening.” <laugh>. So.
Cevan:
It's funny. <laughing> Right.
What should we be doing to improve accessibility for neurodivergent people and especially those with sensory issues? We've touched on this already. Are there resources and accommodations that we should be emphasizing?
Han Malyn:
Ooh, that's a really good question. I mean, there is a lot of information available online. I think that paying attention to resources created by, or written by people from marginalized communities, even on things like, you know, like following TikTok accounts that are for people that are from different demographics from you, following creators of Color, following people who talk about neurodivergence. I honestly, one of the reasons I sought an Autism diagnosis, even though it was something I suspected about myself for a very long time, was Autistic TikTokkers talking about their experiences and starting to go like, “Wait, those aren't, that's not everybody?”
And even though you can't, like, that's not a diagnosis, it was enough to make me go, “Huh.”
And now my spouse watches a lot of social media by Autistic people because he knows that for me, that's like, I don't wanna do that. I don't want to go on social media for escapism and get somebody calling me out on an aspect of myself, it’s like, I didn't need that today.
So, but he does, to understand what's going on with me better and to understand how he can help, and also to bring things to my attention that I might not know are things that are actually because of the Autism. Because again, late in life diagnosis… still processing.
I read a book my therapist had me read called Autism in Heels. That's about how Autism presents in assigned-female people. That was extraordinarily helpful to me, if deeply upsetting at some points, but also has been helpful to point out passages to other people. And I recommend reading it even if you're not Autistic, because there may be people in your life who are, whether they have disclosed that to you or not, and it can help you understand why some people might be reacting to things in different ways than you would assume they would based on your own experiences.
And I think that that's the case for a lot of marginalized communities. Seek out resources created by the communities wherever you can. There are local nonprofits for pretty much any group of people that you can think of. And if you Google, you know, like ‘transgender rights DC area’, you'll get some stuff and you can do that in any city you're in. You can do that for disability rights, you can do that for Autism awareness.
Don't do Autism Speaks, they think we should be cured, which is bad and not real. But..
Cevan:
Right. Right. This is not a character flaw.
Han Malyn:
Exactly. don't, don't try to cure something that somebody doesn't want cured because it's not a disease. But anyway. But yeah, I think that it takes a lot of choosing to personally seek out information. Some of that is curated by, like, if you find a well curated website by a population, they will often link you to other resources that can be very helpful. But it, it does take work. There aren't necessarily huge publicly accessible databases where you can just go in and, you know, how do I learn about so-and-so? You do have to do a little bit of work to find where those resources live. There are a lot of organizations creating them, but we're all kind of dependent on Google still, unfortunately.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. Right. <affirmative>
Han Malyn:
But yeah, I do think, you know, just do your own research, do your own education. It doesn't have to mean that you're reading, you know, huge tomes on things, but again, follow diverse creators on social media platforms, watch movies, read books, even if it's, you know, fiction that, that's written by people who aren't like you, because there will be angles within it that are not things you may have considered that come up.
And, you know, just always, always be listening when people tell you what they're going through, what they're experiencing, listen to them and believe them.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> And I'm glad you brought up that book. Thanks for mentioning that, because so many of us are using bits of information and stereotypes to assess the status of people around us.
Han Malyn:
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and I mean, the reason this specific book was recommended to me was because Autism and ADHD, and I'm sure a lot of other things, the diagnosis criteria is largely based around how things present in young boys.
Cevan:
Right.
Han Malyn:
And so, if you are assigned-female and it presents differently, you're not as likely to get the diagnosis. You're not as likely to get the accommodations. You're much more likely to fall by the wayside and to be treated like you're being lazy when you're not doing things the way people expect you to, because symptoms are different and social expectations are different in gendered ways, unfortunately.
And so for me it was very, you know, the woman who wrote it was similar to me in that she's a very sort of like “high achieving” Autistic woman who was not diagnosed until much later in life. And, you know, talking about how people perceive her versus how she actually is, the assumptions people make and how much of her life she spent being treated as though she was being stubborn for not understanding something or doing things a certain way or, you know, people thought she was, for lack of a better word, being a b–ch just because she didn't read people as well. Or wasn't giving the facial expressions people expected.
In the neurodivergent community, people talk about masking a lot, which is you kind of learn how you're supposed to present to make other people comfortable and to fit in. And some people are better at it than others. Some people learn it more quickly than others. I adapted at a very young age, I think because one, I come from a big family, and two, I again have intense rejection sensitivity issues.
And so I, if anybody disapproved of me even a little bit, it was an entire crisis. And so I learned the behaviors that were expected to get through those spaces. And it's probably one of the reasons I wasn't diagnosed, because the things that I couldn't mask weren't enough to trigger questions for people.
And so like you'll, you know, the audience can't see this, the listeners, but you'll see I talk with my hands a lot. And that is something that I think I taught myself early in my life because if you just sit and talk to somebody and don't move at all, and people are kind of freaked out by that And so I smile a lot more than a lot of people, like when I'm having conversations to indicate, hey, I'm fine, things are good. I'm feeling positive because I am very aware of the fact that if you don't, people often will perceive that as you are angry or you are being a b–ch or you are cold.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Han Malyn:
A lot of people who are, this is a thing I've noticed that's sort of tangential, but people who have Autism or intense anxiety or are just quiet and have good posture, are treated like they are being standoffish and b–chy. Because, good posture, people take as a sign of confidence and therefore if you are confident but quiet people think you're judging them. <laugh>
Cevan:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Han Malyn:
Little things like that really…
Cevan:
Yeah.
Han Malyn:
…Change perceptions and awareness. And I think, yeah, the more you know about things and the more you seek out the lived experiences of other people… there's so many podcasts where you can listen to people talk about their experiences. And I talked about 99% invisible. Atlas Obscura has a podcast that's about places, but it's, you learn all these little 15 minute podcasts and you learn about different places. And often it's places that are from a different culture or for a different population or are rooted in some sort of historical something that just gives you these little bits of outside perspective.
And so I think just broadening your frame of reference, it's easy to do in ways that don't take a lot of effort and don't require taking a lot of time and energy out of your day to do it. Because I know, you know, energy is limited for everybody, especially when you're living in a world where everything is on fire all the time, it feels like.
And so taking on like a huge self-learning project is very daunting, but you can do it in little ways here and there, there are podcasts that are about different lived experiences, but that are very funny and aren't just, you know, sitting there telling you you're bad and you need to do better, but are, you know, conversational and fun and having a good time while also talking about intersectional issues and lived experiences that are different than yours.
And I think that it's sort of a thing that gets said a lot, but not talked about is the ‘consume media by people that are different than you’. And the importance of that is you don't necessarily need someone to lecture at you what you need to know, you can pick up on it through context clues and through just storytelling of other people and what their lives have been. When someone's writing a book from a perspective of someone from a different demographic than you, you see that character's experiences. So even if you, if you're reading a queer book and it's not about like coming out, it still has aspects to it that are things you might not think about if you're not queer. So, you know, read a trashy queer romance novel. They're fun. <laugh>
Cevan:
That's very good advice. <laugh> Thank you. <laugh>
We will link all of these resources that you have shared. I want to ask who you would like people to find, follow, or…
Han Malyn:
Yeah, so yeah, I'm, I'm not all that present on social media these days for a combination of safety and because it's just really depressing in a lot of places.
Cevan:
Yeah.
Han Malyn:
If people want to talk to me about issues that we've been talking about on here, they're welcome to find me on LinkedIn. I respond to messages on there because I consider that to be a professional media not personal, but outside of that, if people want to look at things, my biggest thing right now is to ask people to seek out resources to help trans people in their communities and across the country because we are in a real crisis moment where laws are being passed that are putting people in really immediate danger on a daily basis.
And there are national resources and national organizations like Trans Lifeline that you can support. But it is also really important to support locally, because those are often the organizations that are able to, on the ground, help people on a case by case basis. It's really scary right now, I think pretty much half of the country has laws now, either have passed or are in the progress of being passed, that crack down on the rights of trans people in very invasive and scary ways.
And so even if you don't know anyone in the community, please step up, find some place to volunteer or donate or help however you can. Boost places on social media. Because yeah, we're in danger and it doesn't just endanger trans communities for these things to pass it. They are laws that can affect many other people. So just because they aren't written to directly attack you doesn't mean that you or people you care about aren't in danger. But also, please care about trans people. <Laugh> We need your help. Like we're, it's really scary right now. So.
Cevan:
Yes, please care. And please also state publicly that you are a caring place, a caring organization, a caring person so that people know that you're safe.
Han Malyn:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and there are small things you can do if you want to indicate… one that people kind of think of it as like showy or whatever, fly, a pride flag, one of, preferably one of the intersectional ones with the triangle that covers trans people and people of color as well, even if you are not a person from that community, to indicate that you are accepting and safe. I think that that is a thing you can do.
In your email signatures. Put your pronouns, whether you're trans or cisgendered, to normalize that. I know that there are people within queer communities who aren't comfortable doing that. So it's not a requirement, but it is, if you are cisgender is a step you can take to indicate to trans people that this is something you are aware of and take into consideration. So there really are small things that you can do just to, and yeah, and businesses just put it up publicly, put it on your listings. You will get people just by saying, you are welcome here. So.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time today.
Han Malyn:
Yeah, thank you. This has been really great.
Cevan:
And now, because of my intense social anxiety, I'm going to greet you because I've been warmed up. <laughing> So if I could just quickly, awkwardly greet you….
Han Malyn:
Totally.
Cevan:
Then I'll just throw that in the front. <laughing>
Han Malyn:
Sounds good.
Cevan:
Hi Han. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to talk to you.
Han Malyn:
Thank you so much for having me.
[Audio recording of “Tuning Forks on Resonators” demonstration of the interaction of sound waves with physical objects (from the Physical Science Collection at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History) begins to play in background]
Cevan:
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our website, kinderpublic.com, for more information about our guest and the topic, as well as a full transcript of the conversation, which can be found on the podcast page. Captioned episodes of all of our interviews are also available on our Youtube channel, where we are @kinderpublic. We are also on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter!
If you have enjoyed an episode of Towards a Kinder Public, we would love your help in sharing the episode with others. Please also consider leaving us a rating and a review, it helps us make our topics more visible, and we really appreciate your support.
I’m Cevan Castle, and my guest has been Han Malyn.
Please take extra care. We’ll see you next week.
[“Tuning Forks on Resonators” fades out]
Mentioned in this episode:
Autism in Heels: The Untold Story of a Female Life on the Spectrum
Sounds/Visuals in this episode:
“Tuning Forks on Resonators“ demonstration video of the interaction of sound waves with physical objects, care of the Physical Science Collection at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History