S1 Ep003 How a Semi-Rural Park Models the Power of Public Space with Kate Morse, Pt1
This is part 1 of our 2 part conversation with Kate Morse, Executive Director of Hudson Crossing Park. Hudson Crossing Park is a bi-county public park on an island, situated between the Hudson River and the Champlain Canal, in upstate New York. We explore the design and operational choices encouraging the park’s high level of civic engagement and discuss:
How community collaboration was built into the park from the beginning
How the founder’s civic values are revealed in the park design
The design outcomes of stewardship vs ownership
Why you will find both adults and kids playing on the playground
(https://www.hudsoncrossingpark.org/)
Bio:
Kate Morse has been Executive Director of Hudson Crossing Park since 2017 and was a volunteer during clean-ups on Champlain Canal Lock 5 Island before HCP was born. With over 14 years of experience in non-profits, Kate is currently the only staff member of Hudson Crossing Park.
Kate currently serves as an Erie Canalway National Historic Corridor Commission Board Member, a community partner representative with the Historic Hudson Hoosic Rivers Partnership, as co-Vice President on the Schuylerville Community Council, is a member of the Schuylerville Climate Smart Community Action Group and has served as the Chairperson for the Champlain Canal Regional Stakeholder Council for Canal Corporation’s Reimagine the Canals initiative. She was named a Woman of Distinction by New York State Assemblywoman Carrie Woerner in 2022. Kate resides in Greenwich, New York with her family.
Mentioned in the episode:
Land Acknowledgement
Native-Land.ca | Our home on native land
Hudson Crossing Park
Champlain Canal Lock 5
Lock 5 - Champlain Canal - YouTube
Village of Schuylerville, New York
Historian - Village of Schuylerville
Schuylerville Public Library
Schuylerville Public Library – Hours: M-F 10-8, Sat 10-2 (sals.edu)
New York State Canals and Canal Corporation
New York State Canals (ny.gov)
Town of Northumberland, New York
Town of Northumberland - Welcome
Town of Greenwich, New York
Town of Greenwich, NY - Home (greenwichny.org)
Historic Hudson Hoosic Rivers Partnership
https://www.hudsonhoosicpartnership.org
Empire State Trail System
Champlain Canalway Trail System
Champlain Canalway Trail – A Path Through History
Bonacio Construction Inc.
Saratoga Associates
“The idea was that these two points- environmental sustainability and economic revitalization- do go hand in hand and you can't have one without the other.”
Transcript
Season 1, Episode 3 (Part 1) : How a Semi-Rural Park Models the Power of Public Space
[Sounds of the rushing Hudson River and Canada geese during autumn migration season at Hudson Crossing Park ]
Kate Morse, Guest:
The idea was that these two points- environmental sustainability and economic revitalization- do go hand in hand and you can't have one without the other. And so it's definitely a core piece of everything we do, from hopefully inspiring not only future generations, but also the generations who maybe grew up taking all of these natural resources for granted.
[Sounds of train station fade in to background]
[Rhythmic sounds of train passing]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, Host:
Welcome to ‘Towards a Kinderpublic’, a podcast exploring issues in public space, and ways to design kinder space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
Today’s episode is “How a Semi-Rural Park Models the Power of Public Space.”
Hudson Crossing Park is a bi-county public park along the Hudson River and historic Champlain Canal. The park is on an island, and sits just outside the business district of Schuylerville, New York, which has a population of under 2,000 people. The business district is home to predominantly small and family businesses, including music and art based businesses, restaurants, small shops, and a public library. The area is surrounded by specialized farms, light industry and commercial sites centered around agriculture and construction, and the neighboring towns of Northumberland and Greenwich.
The park is accessed by a drive that crosses the canal and winds past the Champlain Canal Lock 5 Museum, and past a colorful rack of kayaks available for rent. Shortly, a beautiful purpose-built wrought iron gate indicates to cars that they have reached their stopping point at a centrally located parking lot between the wooded shore of the Hudson River, and the wooded shore of the canal. The Play Garden, the Picnic Pavilion, several garden areas, and a trail head are all within view of the parking lot.
There are elements common to most parks - educational signage, trail maps, and kiosks explaining historical infrastructure and points of environmental significance.
While many other nearby natural areas seem to prioritize the ability to retreat from the public and enjoy solitude, it’s immediately obvious how this park diverges in its viewpoint- this is a natural area that seems to also have a strong conviction in the potential of public space.
In this episode, we will discuss the origins of the park, its organizational structure, and some of the unexpected details in its design. Please visit the links in the episode notes or go to our website at www.kinderpublic.com, for further information and images of the design. And we are grateful to have with us now Kate Morse, Executive Director of Hudson Crossing Park.
Cevan, opening interview:
Thank you so much for joining us today! Could we start by understanding what is important to know about the organizational structure of Hudson Crossing Park?
Kate Morse:
Absolutely. I think probably the most important thing to understand is that we are a nonprofit organization. A lot of people visit Hudson Crossing and see the many things that we offer and automatically assume that we're a municipal or state park, and we are not.
And I think equally important to understand is that we are primarily a volunteer based organization. I am the one and only staff member, and I've only been a staff member for the last five years or so. And up until then, basically 15 years prior, we had nothing but volunteers.
And today, still 99% of what you see accomplished at the park and going on at the park is thanks to our volunteer group and our board who show up and make things happen. So we're very, very lucky and very unusual in that respect. But again, it's not something people necessarily see on the surface when they come and visit.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. There are a number of municipal departments, agencies and organizations that were a part of founding the park. The interaction of these groups seemed significant in the way the park works and looks. Could you share a bit of the history of how Hudson Crossing Park came to be as it is today, with regard to the interacting institutions? And what were the major events in its formation that had an impact on the way the park was designed to look and function?
Kate Morse:
Hudson Crossing Park primarily had a vision of partnerships, and part of it was out of necessity, and part of it was out of this dream to connect people in organizations and communities. And at the very, very base level, the property that we inhabit, a 42 acre island that's bordered by the Hudson River and the Champlain Canal, is actually owned by the New York State Canal Corporation. So it is state property.
And understandably, when the idea of utilizing this otherwise unused property came up, Canal Corp. said, “well, that sounds great, but we're not just gonna work with a bunch of folks who kind of raised their hands and say, ‘hey, wouldn't this be neat?’” We needed a municipal sponsor. And the bulk of the island is in the town of Northumberland. So we reached out to the town of Northumberland and said, “we want to build a park for everyone, can you help us out?” And they were incredibly welcoming of this idea and have been a huge and generous sponsor ever since.
So, not to get into too much of the nitty gritty details, but Canal Corporation has a permit with the town of Northumberland, and then we have an agreement with the town of Northumberland. So already before anything has even started <laughing>, we are working with a number of people, or a number of organizations and municipalities.
From there, it really was just recognizing that it takes a community to make things happen. And one, our cornerstone attractions is the Dix Bridge, which is a historic bridge that spans the Hudson River and connects Washington and Saratoga County. And when, again, the idea of the park was beginning to be formed, that bridge was closed to all traffic and slated to be torn down.
And thankfully the park founders said, “this can't happen. This is not only important historically speaking, but this is literally a connection between two counties, multiple communities. We need to save this bridge.” And so, again, both out of necessity and because of this vision, they started fighting the good fight, connecting with municipalities on both sides of the river in both counties. Other groups of organizations, the Historic Hudson Hoosic River Partnership, which is a group of multiple municipalities and nonprofit organizations throughout the region was an integral part. And through a lot of tenacity and hard work and networking and partnerships, they were able to save that bridge. And today it's actually the connecting point along both the Empire State Trail System and Champlain Canalway Trail Systems as well between Saratoga and Washington counties.
So I don't want to say that the partnership organically happened, because there was certainly a lot of work involved, but it did become a very clear piece of the puzzle of what needed to happen in order to make the vision of Hudson Crossing Park work.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. That's really interesting. And when you say that the park founders came together to protect the bridge, who exactly are you referring to in that case?
Kate Morse:
Well, there's a number of folks who certainly can take credit. Marlene and Alan Bissell, were kind of the, the beginning, I'll call them the seed. And then, they were in a position where they, thankfully, were very good at twisting arms and, and selling ideas in the best possible way. And so it didn't take too long before there was a core group of folks who started to have very serious discussions about what needed to happen in order to make Hudson Crossing Park a reality.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm, great. So year round, there's a lot going on- from education, environmental work, community building to fund recreational events. Could you describe the mission of the park and some of its main programming goals?
Kate Morse:
Absolutely. So again, we give a nod to our founders for coming up with a really great mission statement, <laughing>, I always call it our umbrella because it covers so much ground. Our mission is to tie environmental sustainability to economic revitalization and to engage all ages in making informed choices for a sustainable future. So that certainly covers a lot of area.
Um, but the idea was that these two points- environmental sustainability and economic revitalization- do go hand in hand and you can't have one without the other. And so it's, it's definitely a core piece of everything we do, from hopefully inspiring not only future generations, but also the generations who maybe grew up taking all of these natural resources for granted. And also the folks who grew up seeing the communities surrounding our area struggle a little bit, and now making their way back on top of things and really fighting hard for healthy main streets and, you know, farm to table situations with our agricultural communities and really supporting things in a way that maybe they weren't raised to necessarily have at the top of their mind.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Thinking of some of the extraordinary built elements of the park, such as the Play Garden, the Picnic Pavilion, and the Labyrinth, these are clearly not the products of a top-down approach to developing a public park. We'll talk more about the design of these elements and what makes them so unusual in a few minutes. But could you share some insights into how the initial ideas for these elements were formed? Who were the design clients? Who were the architects? Can you share any details or stories about the cooperative nature of the design process and what were some of the values or intentions for the early design work?
Kate Morse:
Our first approach was honestly, to one, recognize that green spaces are good for the communities that they're in. That's sort of the basic answer.
But what we then did was reach out to the community and say, “what do you want to see? What is the piece of the puzzle that will bring you into the park, and utilize it and, and feel some sort of ownership of it?”
And so we held a number of community meetings where: free pizza and sit down and tell us what you envision, “what is your dream park that you have in your backyard?” And understandably gathering spaces and places for children to safely play and explore were at the very top of the list, as well as, I should say, parking <laughing>. So we do have a parking lot <laughing>, very important! But we listened. We asked the community and we listened to the community saying, you know, “what are your priorities?”
And from there we also recognized that with a unique play space, we were sort of doubling our bang for our buck because we weren't just going to get one audience. We're either going to get kids and their parents or kids and their caregivers, kids and their friends... So we sort of hedged our bets a little bit saying, “okay, we'll get twice as many people when one of the, you know, half of that group can't drive themselves there.” <laughing>
So, from there, recognizing that families were primarily the ones who were looking for low cost or free things to do with their kids. But also, again, we were growing the future of the park from the very beginning, recognizing that if we have families with young kids who are excited about this space and excited about what we're offering, odds are they will be invested in it both financially and emotionally and feel like this is part of their hometown and part of their space, which was a big piece of our goal.
Cevan:
Out of curiosity, when the idea of unique play spaces came up, were there references that people had that they brought to the table?
Kate Morse:
There were, but there was also just kind of a lot of looking at the blank slate that we were given of this space. And the environment itself helped dictate what happened. You mentioned that we have a couple of great slides built into the hillside. Those were prime sledding areas before we moved in. And so we said, “well, people are already sliding down this hill, let's just make it official.”
And part of our goal- because of our environmental sustainability piece of our mission- was to also look at things differently. We have a couple of fun planters that are in the play garden area, and that is literally recycled concrete culvert and old satellite dishes that were bound for the waste pile. And we wanted to highlight both the ways that you could interact with nature, but also encourage people to look at things a little differently and don't think, “oh, this is trash. I've gotta get rid of it.” Let's see if there is another way to use it in a really fun and lasting way.
Cevan:
Mmm-hmm. <laughing>
Kate Morse:
Which hopefully we did. <laughing>
Cevan:
For sure!
The Picnic Pavilion is striking and memorable with its sweeping roof segments. It's visible from the parking area <emphasis>, which you mentioned is…
Kate Morse:
…A very important feature. <laughing>
Cevan:
…A very important feature. <laughing>
And it’s one of the first things visitors see. It's both a beautiful piece of architecture and an excellent example of how the built environment can speak of underlying values.
The pavilion is in close physical proximity to visitors as they enter the park. It is centrally located. It has no doors or formal means of exclusion. It's nearly always available to all visitors during park hours. It's filled with picnic tables and offers a place to rest out of the sun and weather. The pavilion is an immediate statement of hospitality and trust. Were these values in the initial design discussions about the park? For the pavilion in particular, were there examples that the clients or designers turned to in imagining this structure? Can you share any ideas or stories about its role within park operations today? And was this design work done by professionals on a volunteer basis?
Kate Morse:
So, absolutely. This was one of our primary pieces of the vision, is that we wanted a place that felt welcoming to everyone and that was a piece of art in its own right. You can certainly have the same, same things achieved with, you know, a pole barn or something much more, uh, much cheaper, and <laughing> much more, much more standard as far as construction goes. But it almost felt like a disservice to the space to do something that was just serviceable. It's such a very special environment and natural area that, again, we wanted to highlight what makes this place special and to draw people in right away. And the swooping of the pavilion roofs are really just this beautiful nod to not only the water that we're surrounded by, and that has informed almost every piece of our communities, from past to present to future, but also the wildlife and specifically the birds that we see flying over the pavilion. It just becomes part of that natural conversation.
And this was not something that we actually did with volunteers. This was created through a lot of grant funding and a lot of hard work on the fundraising side. It was built by Bonacio Construction, and it was actually designed with the help of Saratoga Associates. So, Saratoga Associates not only came up with this after having these discussions with again, the community, but also the core group of founders, which became our first board. But it also really did become a conversation of how does this not become something that's plopped down in the middle of this space, and becomes a piece of this experience, rather than something separate from it.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Hmm. I love that idea of the bird flight, and it really does look like a segment of bird flight as they move.
Kate Morse:
Yeah. It's beautiful.
Cevan:
From the pavilion, you can see the Play Garden, what might be called Hudson Crossing’s version of a playground. Many of the play elements are built into a wooded hill and are therefore concealed by trees and topography. The profile of what looks to be a multi-story ship hull emerges from the trees. Hidden within the trees are two slides that will speed you back down the hillside. Tunnels are built into berms around the Labyrinth, or what I would call a walking mandela, allowing a hidden shortcut from one area to another. A boulder in the middle of the Labyrinth makes an anchored center, a home base. In this way, the natural surroundings become a changing dynamic part of the play experience. The playful elements are dispersed and must be discovered. There is no fence or clear boundary. These design choices transform other nearby and less fanciful elements, including a set of stone steps leading up the hillside into another highly desirable play element.
There are big spaces and small spaces. There are open spaces and covered spaces. There are bright areas and dim areas. There are high areas and low areas. From an architectural perspective, this is an exciting and unusual design. Who designed the playground? What was the vision or the goal? How were these extraordinary choices made, and do you have observations about how the area engages visitors?
Kate Morse:
Well, again, we owe a big thank you to Saratoga Associates for helping us with the design, but it was created with community input and that vision of “how do we enhance the natural environment, rather than inserting ourselves into it?” And I think that you hit the nail on the head. We wanted it to be dynamic. We wanted it to be evolving. It is a very different space in the winter, than it is in the spring, or the summer, or the fall. And there should ideally always be something new to experience. And it doesn't mean that you have to be a kid to experience it. I have seen more than my fair share of adults, you know, hopping from the wood pillars, to stepping stones, to wood pillar, to stepping stone. And it is something that we recognize will take its own experience and its own shape based on whoever happens to be in it.
There are certainly days when we have field trips coming down and the entire space is just overrun by kids. It is an absolutely fantastic thing to see, but it's a very different space than when there's a couple of families who have just gotten together for a playdate or even some retirees are out taking a walk.
I have an unofficial motto for the park, and that is: you find your own adventure there. You really do. You can find your own experience. You can find whatever piece you happen to be looking for, or not even aware that you're looking for. And the play garden really served that well. And again, with the idea that we were gifted with this incredible space, how do we respect that? How do we teach others that you can have this joyful experience while respecting that as well, and not necessarily have this giant monstrosity of <laughing> plastic and metal that's dictating your experience.
And it really becomes something that shifts and changes throughout its lifetime. We just recently have quote unquote added to the play garden with the addition of a fairy village <laughing>. When Covid hit, we obviously couldn't have a lot of our in-person programming, and we wanted to find a way that people could engage with the park individually. And one of our volunteers came across a little fairy house someone had built in one of our little nooks and crannies, and that spawned the idea of, “why don't we tell people to go build fairy houses at the park, and you can only use things that you find at the park,” and let's see what happens.
And before we knew it, there were fairy houses popping up all over, and it was the most magical, wonderful thing. And that has continued. And now we have a more quote unquote established fairy community right in the Play Garden, as well as a collection of fun materials that we've found along the trails of the park of interesting stones and pieces of wood and moss and mushrooms and all sorts of stuff that kids can then take and build whatever structure they feel like they're moved to build. So it is, it's this very active, very alive space, and that's exactly what we want it to be for everybody.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Find your own adventure is lovely. It's like: also be a co-creator. <laughing>
Kate Morse:
<laughing> Yes, yes. Exactly. Exactly.
[Sound of birds only for a few seconds, then fade into background]
Cevan:
Subscribe to Towards a Kinder Public on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review, we would love your feedback. To share information about issues in public space, and spaces that are doing things right, email podcast@kinderpublic.com.
Links to more information about the guests and topics mentioned, as well as a full transcript of the conversation, are available on the podcast section of our website, kinderpublic.com. Visit our website to learn more about our work.
I’m Cevan Castle, our guest has been Kate Morse, Executive Director of Hudson Crossing Park. Here is the sound of a late summer evening in the meadow at Hudson Crossing Park.
[Recording of insects in the meadow and Canada geese on the river at Hudson Crossing Park]
Cevan:
Thanks for listening, I wish you a good week!
[Recording of the meadow fades out]