S4 Ep_032 Caregiving as Public Infrastructure: Improving Inclusion for Children & Families, with Cultural Reproducers Christa Donner & Selina Trepp, Pt.2
US-based artists Christa Donner and Selina Trepp share further insights on the improved inclusion of children and families. Through Cultural ReProducers, a creative platform initiated by Christa Donner, they devised a Childcare Supported Event Series that allowed artist-parents to maintain professional engagement in the art world. We discuss:
Why the inclusion of children is a particularly complicated topic;
Selina’s personal experience of workplace discrimination as a pregnant person in the art world;
How the typical view of children in the U.S. diverges from the view held by many other parts of the world;
Whether caregiving should be considered a personal responsibility or an element of public infrastructure.
Bios:
Christa Donner is an artist, writer, and organizer who investigates the human/animal body and its metaphors. Her practice combines material exploration and social exchange to propose speculative models that move between the emotional architecture of our own bodies and the layered histories of the world we inhabit. Donner's work is exhibited widely internationally and throughout the United States.
In 2012, when her child was one year old, Donner initiated Cultural ReProducers, an evolving creative platform for and about cultural workers who are also working it out as parents.
Donner's practice extends to her role as a curator and educator. She has taught across nine colleges, including fifteen years at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), and currently teaches courses in creative research, drawing, and multisensory making through the Five College Consortium in Western Massachusetts.
Selina Trepp (Swiss/American b.1973) is an artist researching economy and improvisation.
Finding a balance between the intuitive and conceptual is a goal, living a life of adventure is a way, new perspectives are a result.
She works across media and space; combining performance, installation, painting, and sculpture to create intricate setups that result in photos, drawings and animations.
In addition to the studio-based work, Selina is active in the experimental music scene. In this context she sings and plays the videolah, her midi controlled video synthesizer, creating projected animations in real-time as visual music. She performs with a varying cast of collaborators and as one half of Spectralina.
“I'm from Switzerland originally, and I spent time there, and then in Italy also, a lot of time. And I've also spent quite a bit of time in South America…and all those places are much more accommodating to children, not in the sense that they change spaces around to accommodate children, but in the sense that they just are okay with children being there…
”
-Selina Trepp
Transcript
Season 4, Episode 32 (Pt. 2 of 3) Caregiving as Public Infrastructure: Improving Inclusion for Children & Families, with Cultural Reproducers Christa Donner & Selina Trepp
Selina Trepp:
I'm from Switzerland originally, and I spent time there, and then in Italy also, a lot of time. And I've also spent quite a bit of time in South America…and all those places are much more accommodating to children, not in the sense that they change spaces around to accommodate children, but in the sense that they just are okay with children being there…
In the United States, very, very often, there are many subtle or not subtle ways that you're being told that you're not allowed to be in certain spaces. And so I think that's a really huge difference. I think, it feels like here, the way that we think of children is as something, a very private personal good, as opposed to a common good… That's why other people don't feel in any way connected to your child, and that's why they're bothered, ultimately, by it.
To me, that's a very bad thing, I would say <laugh> about living here and raising a child here. It's not a good thing. Not for the children, and not for society.
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, host:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
This is the second episode of Towards a Kinder Public’s 4th Season, which is dedicated to a close look at the interweaving of social, spatial, and organizational exclusion.
Our guests today are Christa Donner and Selina Trepp, two highly accomplished US-based artists.
Christa Donner is an “artist, writer, and organizer,” who “combines material exploration and social exchange to propose speculative models.” Her work has been exhibited widely, including international institutions and throughout the United States. In 2012, when her child was one year old, Christa initiated Cultural ReProducers, an evolving creative platform for and about cultural workers who are also parents. Christa Donner’s sound work is featured at the end of this episode.
Selina Trepp is a “Swiss/American artist… researching economy and improvisation,” who works across media and space; combining performance, installation, painting, and sculpture to create intricate setups that result in photos, drawings and animations.” Selina is also “active in the experimental music scene,” and “performs with a varying cast of collaborators and as one half of Spectralina.”
Christa and Selina are joining me again to speak further about the creative platform Cultural ReProducers, and their Childcare Supported Event Series model, which was developed to allow artist-parents and their children continued access to the art world as professionals and as consumers, rather than being directed into programming exclusively for and about children. We’ll discuss more about their important work in Chicago, as well as their broader expertise on the inclusion of children and families.
As we will be discussing exclusion due to reproductive status and gendered social expectations, I’ll take a moment to restate our framework. Kinderpublic recognizes and celebrates all people and families. Our hope is that individual roles within families have the ability to find their unique and workable balance, free of any biological and gender expectations that are experienced in harmful or limiting ways. We observe the many ways that different families divide paid work and the labor of raising children, and acknowledge all of this as profoundly important work. We do support the idea of children as a common good.
Thank you for joining us for Part 2 of our interview, on the work of Christa Donner, Selina Trepp, and Cultural ReProducers.
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan:
When people have infants, toddlers, and preschoolers, it's an intense time, when additional supports are really needed. But as your kids get older, do you find that you have additional requirements for inclusion, or different requirements for inclusion? Are you seeing the positive outcomes from your earlier push for inclusion of your children, and they are now able to function more independently in a variety of environments?
Selina Trepp:
I'd say yes, for sure. I mean, I think the needs are very, very different with older children. My child being disabled, is again, a whole other set of needs that I learned to think about and to think about how it could be accommodated or what kind of accommodation is needed.
But ultimately, I mean, older kids are also, they're their own person, and so that in itself makes it both easier and also harder because they have their own preferences, needs and desires that need to be respected, and that they can also communicate, which makes it a lot easier.
I think with small children, part of the difficulty is that they can't advocate for themselves in any real way. So it's hard to know.
Cevan:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
But I think in the case of my own child, I would say the fact that I insisted on inclusion all along and still to this day, I mean, Maxine is very much part of… my husband is a musician, we also have a band together. We perform quite a bit. Our child goes to these places, you know, meets all these people, they have to… in Maxine's special case… that also means that people need to learn how to deal with an Autistic person, which I think is very valuable, and for Maxine to be able to be in the world.
So, I think the more one goes out and insists on being out in the world and also insists on the world becoming more accommodating, so not just thinking about pushing yourself to fit, but asking them to say like, “Hey, well, if you want to have parents in your midst as artists, if you want to hear the stories of parents and see the stories in that angle, then you need to create a space where parents can actually exist and be.” Right?
And if you don't do that, what you'll get is you'll get a really hobbled perspective, and we have the right to ask for that, I think, as everybody does.
So in my experience, it's been very useful, and also exhausting sometimes, you're just like, why do I still have to ask?
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. And then do the work.
Selina Trepp:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think one thing that I've learned greatly is that I actually ask other people to do the work nowadays. So I've gotten good at that. That has been very different. I think it wouldn't occur to me. Like right now, I'm often in this situation where I have great ideas for things that I would love to have happen, and I'm like, yeah, I wish somebody would do that. I really want to be in the studio, make art. That's where I'm at. So, I let the world know. I let people know my good ideas and I hope they pick it up.
Christa Donner:
Yeah, I do think I'm seeing, in art and also in other parts… in academia, like, I teach at a couple different colleges right now, and it's been interesting to see this shift. And I don't think the Cultural ReProducers necessarily is the only thing spurring that, but people will be much more upfront about the fact that they have family concerns and they can't make it to a meeting because they have to be home with their kids. Which, just like 5-10 years ago, I don't think people would've, they would've just said, “oh, I have a prior commitment,” right? Because it didn't sound professional to mention that you had kids at home.
But yeah, I think it has definitely changed, I'm remembering a very early Cultural ReProducers event, one of the childcare supported events. I remember my child being up in the area where the kids were, and we were downstairs and we had microphones and we were presenting, and this wail came in, it was like “Mama!” and sobbing, and it was my kid! <laughing> And it's like, it really made me wonder, what am I doing? This is really hard on her. I'm dragging her around to all these things. She has to stay longer than all the other kids, because I’m not just dropping her off, I'm bringing her there, we're setting up, we're talking to all these people. She's there for hours.
So she went through a lot and she still, if I mention anything about Cultural ReProducers, she's just like, “Oh, I hate Cultural ReProducers.”
But, you know, she also is an amazing person to go to an art museum with. She's got this really incredible critical eye. It's really fun to talk about art with her and observe things that we see in the world. And yeah, it's a whole different thing now that she's older.
And I do remember being, presenting when Cultural ReProducers was really new, I was presenting as part of this feminist art project, Day of Papers, at the College Art Association. And I remember some of the more seasoned mothers in the audience kind of rolling their eyes and being like, “But your kid is really young. What's going to happen when they're like 12, or whatever? What's going to happen to this project?”
And I was like, I don't know. I have no idea. This is all really new to me, but I don't feel like I should not do this. This is where I'm at right now and this is where my needs are, and I can see other people have these needs. So, obviously this is where I'm going to put my energy.
And it's been evolving. I don't post as often on the website, right? The website has really slowed down. The events have really slowed down, because my pace of life is different, and I'm always trying to think about how to make it something that maybe continues or is archived in a certain kind of way, because I think it's still useful and important. It's just my relationship with it is always changing.
Selina Trepp:
I was going to say for you, about your project, it also has always been in a space between a project that is a project in the world in a very practical sense, but also a social art, an art practice of yours. This is very much part of your art practice.
And that was always something that was very explicitly different between me and Christa, where for Christa, Cultural ReProducers is part or goes back and forth in her practice. But for me, Cultural ReProducers was something that was more of a political activity, I would say, and sort of a cultural political activity, but not related to my practice. Except for insofar that I really think about my practice as a problem solving practice.
And this was the same thing of really thinking about being very direct. What are our needs? What do we need to see? We don't see it. Let's make it, I think we weren't able to solve the problem forever, but I think we were able to add something in that moment by doing that
Christa Donner:
And that approach, I mean, Selina, your approach, like I think on either end of our event series and the projects that we did together as part of it, I've been the thread that's been holding the things together, right, but the approach that I take and the language of it, and so much of that would never have coalesced if it hadn't been for your language around that. You just have such a specific, and- practical is not the right term- you live your ethics in a way that I am always learning from, and that really informed Cultural Reproducers, and continues to.
Selina Trepp:
Yeah, I think it's just very direct, right? It's sort of…it’s actually very uncomplicated. That's why ‘practical’. I also think it's kind of like, okay, we got to just make it work somehow.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
Thank you. No, I appreciate that. I was just talking with a friend about my collaboration with you and my collaboration with somebody else, and I was like, yeah, it's funny. My collaborations, I'm always with these super brilliant people who can just do shit, and I just kind of come in and add a couple of things, or just sharpen it or something. <laugh>
Christa Donner:
That is not how I think about it. We- when we were doing that event series- another thing that happened that I'll mention is that, we were curating these events. We'd had four of them. In the meantime, people were inviting us to be on panels and all these things. And I remember going to a panel at a gallery and there were all these angry parents in the audience who were like, you need to do this for us, you need to do that. And I was like, when did I become like a service organization for these people?
And we were trying to decide what to do for our final event in this series. And so we were just like, you know, I think instead of it being an artist talk, it needs to be a workshop, like a skill sharing workshop where people really start thinking about what is it that they need and what is it that they want, and kind of reverse engineer it into like how could we get there?
And it became this really, you know… Selina really, really played an important role in figuring out how we were going to structure that. But that workshop series or that workshop became a series of workshops, that has become a really interesting process. I now have all these examples to show people of ways that people have done that where they've been like, this is what I need, I'm going to make it. Which I think for a lot of people, they don't have the bandwidth for that or they don't believe they're just, I'm just trying to get dinner on the table and maybe get half an hour in my studio sometime this week.
So, to set aside an hour to bring people together... And that first event was great, because it was also, it was like arts administrators and board members and also artists, and put them into small groups, and have them talk about, here are the problems that I'm experiencing. Here's what my fantasy scenario would be, and here are the steps I'm going to take to get there.
Which was really exactly how we came up with this childcare supported event series- we were just like, ah, I'm so frustrated because this, this, and this, wouldn't it be great if art events happened during this time and there was childcare and blah, blah, blah. What if we wrote a grant and we asked for these items, right? And bam, it happened, very quickly. So not that everything's that easy, but it was useful I think as a way of framing that for people
Selina Trepp:
And also framing problems not as problematic, but as prompts, right. Really thinking about it as like, okay, well this is where work needs to be done, and it's good to know. And then to make that, how can I make that interesting and how can I address that within my own means? Which also sometimes means changing what you want, right, or what you need, like realizing, yeah, well, this isn't going to be the marble palace, and instead you're going to do something else that is going to fulfill certain aspects of the needs. Really looking at what it is, what the problem really is.
Cevan:
I really like the idea of problems as prompts, and I really like how you approached that by understanding the problem, having a resolution in mind, and then outlining the steps to get there with a variety of professions represented at the table, if I'm interpreting that correctly. That was really smart.
My little guy is in the background. So, sorry, he’s... We're also having animal noises today. So… <laughing>
I want to come back, Selina, to the idea of your sudden awareness that, in America, <laugh> you'll lose your professional occupation at the first site of offspring, and apparently no one alerted you to that custom. <laughing>
Selina Trepp:
Although, actually, the gallery that kicked me out was in Switzerland!
Cevan:
Oh, sorry!
Selina Trepp:
Which is even less surprising, because in Switzerland [we] got the right to vote in 1971. But here in America in other ways, I felt it. I find America extremely. I mean, for me, it has been and still is a shockingly… becoming a parent feels like being dropped back into the 1950s somehow, or what I imagined them to be because obviously I was not alive then. I have found it very surprising, how extremely gendered everything is.
Cevan:
Yeah. So, my assumption was wrong. I apologize for… <laughing>
Selina Trepp:
Americans aren't the worst!
Christa Donner:
We’re among the worst.
Cevan:
Yeah!
So if I can shift that thought to the use of public space, I think that we can agree that here parents and young children are generally not accommodated. I would even say excluded, in that they may not be able to be physically present, and if they are physically present, they may not be able to participate as others are. So, it's really imperative that we understand how to make public space better for parents and young children.
Have you, and you've touched on this a bit, but have you lived in communities or participated with institutions that did a better job of integrating parents and younger children into the wider community? Or, even older children? Just children in general.
Selina Trepp:
I'm from Switzerland originally, and I spent time there, and then in Italy also, a lot of time. And I've also spent quite a bit of time in South America with Maxine when they were small. And all those places are much more accommodating to children, not in the sense that they change spaces around to accommodate children, but in the sense that they just are okay with children being there.
Whereas in the United States, very, very often there are many subtle or not subtle ways that you're being told that you're not allowed to be in certain spaces, like restaurants, for example. I would always take my child to restaurants, and I like to eat well. So when I go to a restaurant, it's going to be a nicer restaurant and not a McDonald's, like, I want to sit down, there's going to be adults there. And that was actually very difficult when Maxine was small, not because Maxine was in any way bothersome, but because people really did not like it, and would say so in ways, or let us know.
Or, for example, there were a couple of summers that I spent in Europe and my partner was there, and then he was touring, and so he would go away, but I was also working and I would have meetings with people. And so, I would meet people in a cafe that's right next to the playground, and Maxine would be in the playground and I would be in the cafe, and we would have our meeting, and I wouldn't have to be concerned about Maxine. I could kind of see her, and that was totally okay. Whereas in the United States, there's this expectation that parents are constantly going to be right there, and that if something happens to your child, you are going to run over.
Whereas in Europe and in South America as well, my experience has always been that the child is viewed as a common good, and that you know, if something happens to your child, if your back is turned, somebody else is going to go there and make sure that their child is okay as would you with another child. And so I think that's a really huge difference.
I think, it feels like here, the way that we think of children is as something, a very private personal good, as opposed to a common good. And so that's why we can't participate. That's why other people don't feel in any way connected to your child, and that's why they're bothered, ultimately, by it.
To me, that's a very bad thing, I would say <laugh> about living here and raising a child here. It's not a good thing.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
Not for the children and not for society.
Christa Donner:
Yeah. And I think it makes the children really anxious, and it makes them scared of being independent. It's a whole other podcast.
Selina Trepp:
Yeah.
Christa Donner:
I remember being at a residency in Germany. I had been interested in doing artist residencies before I became a parent, but after I became a parent, it was even… it became sort of a little bit of a research obsession for me to find these residencies that would allow for that, and create something that would help me to, you know, that would feed my creative practice and my own creative research, but also create a situation where I could bring my family along, and maybe my kid would get an interesting experience out of it. But it wasn't like I was going to… there was no way I was going to leave my child at home for two months while I did a residency or something.
So, I really actively was applying for things and finding out about different kinds of programs that would allow for and support having a child along. And that was really interesting, both in terms of how differently it worked in different places, but also, yeah, I mean, it was eye opening to be in these different countries where parenthood was approached so differently, like as Selina was saying.
And I remember being… I did a residency in Berlin where it was part of the Max Planck Institute for the History of Science, which also had the added benefit of the fact that it was not actually an arts institution, it was a scholarly institution, but they had this thing that was through- I'm not going to remember the correct name- but it was like, through the National Department of Women and Family Rights, or something like that. Something that I just couldn't even, I was just like, what? That's a thing?
And because this department needed to make sure that women and families were being treated appropriately in this scholarly institution, there's this room that's like a meeting room, where you could bring your kid if they were sick and couldn't go to the school, and you can have your meetings in there, there's a phone for you to use, and there was a whole cabinet that if you opened the cabinet up, it was full of art supplies and toys that people had brought in.
So your kid could totally just hang out in there while you worked. And I was like, what?? This is not an expensive thing to do. This is something that a lot of business places could have- just have, right? It is just like a cabinet with some toys and crayons in it, and probably they have something like this set up, but they're not thinking about it in terms of family. They're just like, oh, we need a flex space. We need a space for people to meet if there's something going on in their office or whatever else. But the fact that it was framed that way and when we got the tour of the building, that was how it was introduced to us, just completely blew my mind. Like, it's just, again, this idea of these things that it would never occur to us to ask for that are just taken for granted other places, because the culture is thinking about the role of caregivers in society in such a different way, right.
It's not that mothers automatically get to do whatever they want in Berlin or anything, right. These problems are still there, but it's so much more a part of the culture.
One thing I noticed when we would have these events in Chicago is that some of the more international artists would be like, oh, it's like going to an art opening in Berlin. <laughing> Because I guess in Berlin everyone brings their kids to art openings, right? It's not a thing. But here, that's still not the norm necessarily.
Selina Trepp:
I mean, for me, it was very strange moving to Chicago when I was 23 and being part of the art scene in Zurich where there were already people with children in the scene, that, you know, it was very normal to see children. And then coming here and realizing I never saw any children until I had children. And so that was definitely part of, I think what we were also talking about, was just visibility, thinking about how there's this vanishing that happens and why and how do we change that.
Christa Donner:
And how do we make it not just like you were saying, that there's quote unquote family programs are really like kids programs, and no one who doesn't have kids would go to that, right. Versus programs for adults, which is people without children. <laugh>
And can't there be something that's not just for parents, that's for all of the people to sort of mingle and have conversations. And maybe there's kids and maybe there aren't, but you know it's all mixed together and feels normal and interesting and healthy.
Selina Trepp:
And also, I think one of the things that I remember us discussing very specifically around how we programmed the event series was really thinking about having things that were interesting to everyone. That shouldn't always just be the conversation, as soon as you become a parent, then you're forced into being in the conversation around parenthood in every aspect of your life.
But actually, none of us really want that. We want to have that to be not something that needs to be hidden, but it also doesn't, unless this is your main thing, it doesn't have to be your main thing at all times.
So, really thinking about the curation of having talks that were at a convenient time for us and that they had the childcare support for us, but were open to everyone and everyone… We've made a very big effort to make it interesting to everyone because we wanted there to be not this kind of segregation, but bringing people together, like, normalizing it.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Cevan:
It brings us back to the point of the personal good versus the collective good, and how we identify children in our lives, and in our cultural life. Very interesting.
Within the last 10 years <laugh> I've observed really accomplished professionals in academic and design careers slipping engagement rings off of fingers before walking into work meetings, or hiding the existence of their children at all costs, because that slippage from their personal or fertility life would immediately sever them from the benefit of their own professional expertise, and ruin the illusion of a body that is perpetually available <laugh> for workplace labor, perhaps.
This prohibition did not seem to be experienced by men in the same positions, by my observation, men were most likely able to participate without anything kind of indicating their role as a caregiver, because they were benefiting from the labor of another parent, perhaps. And the existence of partners and children actually enhanced their professional persona rather than diminishing it.
Can you speak more to the gender dimension that you find in your work? Please feel welcome to correct or adjust my language or framework.
Selina Trepp:
I can speak to that. Yeah, of course. I think I see it in every aspect of life, and in the art world, it's very, very obvious in many, many, many different ways. I think complexly also, despite many men not really consciously wanting it to be like that, or you know, it's like a lot of it is really baked in super deep from all participants in how we…. in sort of how reward structures operate. It's very unconscious.
But yeah, I see it. And I think part of it is in regards to what kind of work men are allowed to make, and women are allowed to make, part of it is what the expectations are. Part of it is also literally, men often make a lot more money. And so then, that forces couples, artist couples, into positions where they're perhaps two artists, but one of the artists is making more money, so then the other artist does more childcare, which then leads into less studio time, and, you know, like…. So there's this whole snowballing effect that happens that does still, I think, greatly benefit men.
And one also sees that in regards to who gets exhibited, and who doesn't get exhibited, what happens when people speak up versus when people don't speak up about things. Where it's like, with men speaking up, that's okay, women speaking up is not really that okay. Like, it's already much more problematic.
So, I think if anything, maybe it's actually kind of been a little bit of a backsliding lately.
Christa Donner:
I wanted to grab this zine…
Selina Trepp:
<laugh>
Christa Donner:
The Propositions, Manifestos and Experiments zine, because there's this quote from another group, another artist-parent group, Invisible Spaces of Parenthood, that I really like that's on that inside cover. And they say, “When childcare is an equally shared problem among genders, it transcends the private sphere and is treated as a public and infrastructural issue.” And I think that that's so right on the money.
Whenever I have these conversations and there are men involved, right, they're not coming at it as like, “whew, I'm going to throw my weight around. I can do whatever I want.” They're just coming to it from this other place of, I mean, certainly, privilege, but just being able to ask for what they want to ask for and do what they want to do, in a way that most women have not been able to.
And so, yeah, I mean I think there are things. I still don't have that language for it except for this, but these things that are treated as: “Is it a public and infrastructural issue? Or is it this women's issue,” that we have to apologize for, or feel weird about asking for, that makes us seem less professional in some way.
You know, I think when you said that about women slipping off their wedding rings so that they would be seen as more professional, like, that's so disturbing. And it's one of the reasons that I think, once we are successful enough to do so, it can be really empowering to others to be very upfront about the fact that we are parents and make that visible.
I remember as an art student seeing an artist named Lisa Hoke speak about her work. She came and spoke in front of my art school, and she mentioned- it wasn't a major part of her art talk- but she was just mentioning that something in her studio practice had changed, because her child was coming home from school at a certain time, and she needed to be with them. And for me as a- I don't know how old I was, like 20 years old- art student to hear a woman artist mention that she had kids and that she still had an art practice, and was just working with that, felt so, uh… I don't know, like, it felt groundbreaking at the time. <laugh> Which is so… that's upsetting to think about. But I went up to her afterwards and thanked her for mentioning that. That was long before, I didn't have kids until I was in my thirties.
But just to mention that you have a family and that is a factor in decisions that you make about your practice, and that does matter in terms of the timing of things, once you're in a position to do so, I think can be really powerful, for yourself, and for people you may not realize it's helping.
Selina Trepp:
It's also interesting, just the assumption of availability, right? That, if you're married, you're available to somebody else primarily.
Christa Donner:
Mm-hmm.
Selina Trepp:
As opposed to if you're not [married], then you're available to the work, in that same way.
And I think, of men, that same availability is never actually asked.
And I would also say, men can ask for infrastructure changes because they're the ones who grant it.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
So… <laughing>
Cevan:
Right!
[‘Peripatetic Pandemic Soundtrack’ fades into background with synchronous editing of ambient sounds in Chicago and Singapore]
Cevan:
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our website, kinderpublic.com, for links and more information about our guests and the topic.
A full transcript of the conversation can be found on Kinderpublic’s podcast page. Captioned episodes of all of our interviews are also available on our Youtube channel, where we are @kinderpublic.
We are also on instagram, facebook, and twitter! We’d love to hear from you there.
Please share the episode, subscribe to the podcast, and leave us a rating and a review. This helps us make our message more visible and we really appreciate your support.
Here is an audio clip from Christa Donner’s work Peripatetic Pandemic Soundtrack, “a conversational excursion held between [4 participants in] Chicago and Singapore that began on March 27, 2021—at night in one time zone, morning in the other…This walk takes the form of a conversational ‘drift’.” The full work is linked in our episode notes so that you can experience the audio and visual components, and read the corresponding conversation that took place across time and geography.
I’m Cevan Castle, and my guests have been Christa Donner and Selina Trepp, speaking about the creative platform, Cultural ReProducers. Our conversation will continue in the next episode.
Please take extra care, we’ll meet you back here next week!
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