S3 Ep030 Walking the Land: the importance of small-scale and family farms with Reverend Peaches Gillette, Pt2
Walking the Land: A Loving Tribute to Family Farms is a new book of watercolor paintings, poetic reflections, and interviews with small and family farmers in the Finger Lakes Region of New York. In Part 2 of our 2-part interview, Reverend Gillette speaks further about her collaborative work with watercolorist Tommy Beers, their experiences in visiting the small-scale regional farms, and the lessons that she took away from their deeper look at the farms in the book. Reverend Gillette shares:
How families and children can talk about food, to bring a deeper level of awareness and gratitude of its value;
How Reverend Gillette’s friendship with a sunflower farmer changed her understanding of the many steps of producing flowers and seeds;
How farms and food provide opportunities for growth of consciousness;
A reading of two poems in Walking the Land, and their significance to the author.
Bio:
Reverend Gillette is a poet, an ordained chaplain, spiritual counselor, and race relations advisor, who recently participated as a panelist in the Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center’s Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference in Ithaca, New York. Reverend Gillette has been an educator for more than 45 years in private and public school settings, as well as programs providing educational pathways for incarcerated individuals. She has worked with veterans, disabled individuals, and survivors of domestic violence. Presently, she sits on the Dryden School Board and the Tompkins County Human Rights Commission.
“…this is a growth of consciousness. Like, I've always loved farms and farmland. But I too had a disconnection in some ways, that now, I have none. When I see food, when I see trucks, when I see even animals- and I'm a vegan- even animals, and I'm thinking like, you know, those are the products of somebody's unbelievable work and determination.”
-Peaches Gillette
Transcript
Season 3, Episode 30 (Part 2 of 2) Walking the Land: the importance of small-scale and family farms with Reverend Peaches Gillette
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Every day of their lives, if they get up in the morning, like, I mean, some farmers are like, “Oh yeah, I needed to work for 10 hours today, but it started raining and I only got four.” And every day, there's something that they have to go, “Okay, I have to let that go for now and pick it up again another time.”
I mean, it's enormous… the one subject of farming has all these incredible messages that speak to the energy, and the force, and the determination of the human spirit.
And the understanding that things are not within our control, you know. Those are great lessons that people need to learn.
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, host:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
It is our pleasure to continue our conversation with Reverend Peaches Gillette about her new book, Walking the Land: A Loving Tribute to Family Farms, a collaborative work with watercolorist Tommy Beers.
Reverend Gillette is a poet, an ordained chaplain, spiritual counselor, and race relations advisor, who recently participated as a panelist in the Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center’s Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference in Ithaca, New York. Reverend Gillette has been an educator for more than 45 years in private and public school settings, as well as programs providing educational pathways for incarcerated individuals. She has worked with veterans, disabled individuals, and survivors of domestic violence. Presently, she sits on the Dryden School Board and the Tompkins County Human Rights Commission.
This new book, Walking the Land, is dedicated to American family farms, and features poetic reflections as well as interviews with the farmers about their work, their hopes, and the future of their farms. The writings are partnered with Tommy Beers’s beautiful watercolor paintings of each of the family farms- capturing not just the moments of abundance and harvest, but also the challenges, the dormant periods and moments of waiting, the beloved and necessary machinery, and the realities of this work.
Kinderpublic sees agricultural land and farm policy as an essential component of the health of public space, and skilled farming as one of the most important tools in climate change mitigation.
This is Part 2 and the conclusion of our conversation, and includes Reverend Gillette discussing two poems from the book.
We hope you find this conversation to be a space of peace, gratitude, and a reflection on the power of determination! We’ll jump back into our conversation on access to food and the importance of our farms. Thank you for listening.
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan, opening interview:
You brought two points to mind. First, is the dialogue that we have around food, the culture that we have around food. You know, is it fast enough? Is it… <laugh>
I think back to a conversation that I had with you maybe a year or two ago, where I was expressing frustration around mealtime and…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. <laughing>
Cevan:
…Family… <laughing> family dynamics, around certain foods and unwillingness to eat them, and…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Exactly. <laughing>
Cevan:
…Various things like that. And I think that we can be so caught up in the difficulty of our lives that we forget the challenges of other lives. <laughing>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. Yeah.
Cevan:
And you reminded me at that time that the conversation that I might have with my children is about how hard people worked to grow this food, and to harvest the food, and to move it to where we could access it. And that really was a very impactful thing to say, and it did really stop me in my frustration.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's tricky! And, you know, they're, you know… children are children.
But also, you know, it's like when you tell a story to the children, right, and the more dramatic and alive you could be with the story, the more they're like, glued onto you and what you're saying?
Well, why not do that around food? Why not do that around the people who grow the food? Make it into like, like any kind of story that they love with adventure and challenges and, you know, things they have to confront, like, you know, the dragon of weather and things like that. Why not do that and just bring it right home to them and make it just like this, “You have to hear this story about your food!”
And now you are actually directly connected to that story, <laugh>, you know, it's, it's just a nice way to do things with some kids, you know?
And I often feel like, you know, even, you know, with, you know, we have like a lot of farmer's markets and a lot of CSAs and things like that. And, the people who go to the markets, it's almost as if they appreciate the food being beautiful and fresh, but they forget how that food came about. That food, that one tomato, may have been such a labor for somebody! That sunflower seed, the sunflower seeds that they eat. Like, I know someone who has a sunflower farm. That work that goes into a sunflower- you think, “Oh, it's a flower.” Or, you know, “How hard could it be?” Blah, blah, blah… That work that goes into having a sunflower farm is incredible!
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
And then, shaking off the sunflowers, and bagging them, or whatever. It's not, this is not, you know… it almost feels to me like people look at it as, like, children look at like Christmas, like, “Oh, these presents just like show up!” <laugh> Like, we have no idea how they got here, but they're eager, you know, like that kind of thing.
Cevan:
<laughing> Yeah.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
You know, and we often, we have a consciousness about us, because we're always talking about how children are disconnected from food, and we don't think about the strands and ways that we are disconnected from food.
Cevan:
<laughing> Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
You know?
Cevan:
<laughing> Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. It’s so funny. <laughing>
Cevan:
Yes, exactly. <laugh> Like, I'm standing in front of these things and I'm going to pick the most perfect one…. <laughing>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah, exactly. <laughing>
Cevan:
….While ignoring the person standing in front of me who has really worked and struggled and been up since very early in the morning to get to this market, which is in itself a very physically hard task.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
That is exactly right. Yeah. I mean, I sit down with some of these farmers and I'm like, I couldn't have done that job in my best days! Like it was really, oh, my Lord, you know? <laughing>
Cevan:
At 22 that would've been hard! <laughing>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Exactly. <laughing> I would've been like, nope, that's not, I'm not doing that.
Cevan:
Yeah.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
So now, so okay, this is a growth of consciousness. Like, I've always loved farms and farmland. But I too had a disconnection in some ways, that now, I have none. When I see food, when I see trucks, when I see even animals- and I'm a vegan- even animals, and I'm thinking like, you know, those are the products of somebody's unbelievable work and determination.
It goes even deeper than that, about people who have been broken, at times. You know, people whose heart and soul has gone into this stuff- I mean, this is deeply spiritual to me on some level- who got those food items to the market so that we can eat them and they can make a little money for their family. It's deep, to me. It really is.
Cevan:
Yeah.
I really appreciated how you said it was life itself. And I think that that is the experience in some way- not to minimize the work, and the hardship- but that must be, in some way, the experience of that work.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
And I appreciate also in your book how you, I think it's the farm of Akiva Silver…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. Yes.
Cevan:
…And how the land was not wanted by large agriculture because it was very wet.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. Yes.
Cevan:
And so this individual found a way to work with the land…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
…And create a farm that was absolutely overflowing with life.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
<laughing> Yes.
Cevan:
As you described it, that's what it sounds like, to me.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah it's wonderful, I feel like the next project should be like out there videotaping everything from his morning to sundown.
I mean, every piece of land he has out there is growing something. <laugh> Like, you know, and you saw the book, like even that mound of land, um, a poem in there about a mound of land. At first sight it looks like, “What was that?” It just looks like a pile of dirt. And then you realize that all this stuff is under there growing, and changing, and soon to shoot up above the surface and be more food, you know? And part of the whole ecosystem and all of that stuff that goes on out there.
So there are many, there are layers of messages. Like, you don't look at something on the surface. Always go deeper than that, you know?
And that was one of, one of the best… because Tommy and I, when he first painted that, he goes, “I bet you can't do anything with this as a poem!” And at first I'm like, “Hmm, he might be right.”
And then I realized like, wait a minute, this is us, right? This is us. People look at us and they see the surface of who we are, and they don't see what beauty is growing inside and trying to emerge itself, and to sustain itself, and to be nourished by life. And they don't see that. Well, that's what I was looking at, at that point of that mound. And I thought, okay, this is, this is fantastic. Because for me, I tripped over into another spiritual way of looking at the world in general. And that's always part of my goal.
And so this project in of itself just had so many facets of amazement to me, um, that yeah, it was just a blessing. It really was.
Cevan:
I was really struck also in the number of very personal details, I felt, that you, you brought to the writing, about your summaries about the farms and the farmers, and their lives and their hopes. And I noted that I think in every single one you asked them if their children would be taking on the work and the farm. And I thought that was a really touching question, and I thought that the range of answers were so… also touching.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Yeah.
Cevan:
Would you like to say anything about that?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah, I just, I, on my own bias, I just love listening to people's stories about their families. It's just like in your, you know, your children are like, there's no word to describe who they are to us. Right?
Cevan:
Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
And I feel that, I feel that for every family, that I know what your children mean, and that's just, you know, it just moves me into tears.
And so, and I also know the history of family farms, where they become family farms, because you pass them down.
But now we're in a very- well, we have been- in a very different era, of people not wanting to carry on with those things, knowing quicker ways to make money, and certainly less laborsome and unpredictable. And that, you know, we, we used to have an era where people did not go far away from home to make a living, and now we are in a different world.
I also know that that can be very painful to some farmers who just like, you don't want to see the end of all you've done. The same way it's hard to see the end of life. You know, these farms are their life, and the fact that they won’t be passed along for some farmers means the end of their life. And we love to feel- all of us- that we are, we actually carry on through our children, and then through their children, from the stories they tell. And it's such a beautiful human process of, passing ourselves on, even past our deaths, passing on to other people.
And so I knew that that's a big deal to talk about, like, “What are your hopes about your farm continuing?” And like you said, there were, you know, four completely different stories, about what people hoped, and acceptance, that it might not happen because they understand the reality of the times we live in.
But I did love hearing them. You know, some people like that would, I mean, most of them were like, “That would be great, like, if that happened!” Like, “I would love that to happen!”
And one of the women, um, who owns her own farm, and she has kids right now, and I think she has like an infant, and maybe a three year old, and maybe a seven year old, and they all work the farm. <laugh> Like I just, everyone, they're all this, the babies out there, like watching people working the farm, and the young kids are working the farm, and it's just like, and they're, they're unafraid and, and uninterrupted by anything, animals, creatures, anything that's there because she has like, really like, put that in their heart and hopes that that carries forward.
And it's just, it's so beautiful, like, we deny… and it may be more of an American culture, like, kind of like this radical individualism that sneaks up into our hearts… the fact that all children can carry on something that we did. We do love that. We don't force them to do that, but when they do that, we're like, “Yes!!” <laugh> “That's great.” You know?
And I love it. I love that. Because, like I said, it just… it can make all of us, in some ways, eternal. You know, it can make me eternal through my children. It can make my children eternal through their children. And there's something just spiritually gorgeous about that. So it was a good question to ask for me because it was something that, like, I was, it was resonating in my heart anyway. And because I know that families are, you know, they're, it's wordless to the degree that you love them. It's just, there's no word for it. You know? And that's amazing to me. That is such a powerful thing in us. And it's one of the things that actually, in some small measure, gives me hope, that if we can love that much- like limitlessly- even with our own families, then we can do that in other parts of the world, you know? So it's, it's a hopeful thing to me.
Cevan:
I want to ask if you would read one of the poems.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Ah, yes. Do you have a preference?
Cevan:
I have a number of favorites, as you can see. <laughing, flips through many marked pages>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Okay. <laughing>
Cevan:
But, I would love it if you would choose one that is very meaningful to you.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Okay. Yeah. Let me… Ah, yes. I love “Tractors Sketched in the Snow” [painting and poem of Jim and Doreen Van Fleet’s New Era Farm, Ovid, New York] So, I'll read that one:
On this day,
on this occasion,
a well-loved farm has halted
beneath the demands of the season
and sits in a world
of utter dormancy.
The cold and frost
have wrapped themselves around the tractors and trees
and covered them
with the softness of the snow,
and gradually rocked them to sleep.
The voice of the chilled air
continues to recite the words of lullabies,
like poems afloat on the chilled air,
and this world of pastures and grains responds-
We are at rest now.
We will see you again.
On this day,
there are no choices,
no struggle against what has to be;
the fields and tractors
slip into the call of the frigid times-
only patience will provide warmth
and an awakening
long coming.
The bark of the trees
are blankets for their vulnerable interior.
Their roots settle far down into the earth.
Their winter slow-down
on point.
They wait.
Tractors and trailers
keep watch for the shadows that a new season will bring,
but for now,
they huddle down,
shut down, like the eyes of slumber.
This enchanted world,
once active and warmed by spring,
summer, and fall,
acquiesces to the winter.
Yet, its beauty
its life is not affected-
just differently sketched
by the lines of the cold.
Cevan:
Beautiful.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Thank you. The painting itself is just stunning to me. And, I did a workshop, just Friday, where we used some of these pictures and asked people to go into the mood, in the second part of the workshop, to go into the mood of the painting, not what's in the painting, but the mood of the painting and write about that.
And one of the women wrote about this poem as being sad, this picture as being sad and empty, because everything had come to a halt. And it was such an interesting perspective. And it may, it could have been based on anything, but it could have been also based on the fact that she was much older, and the thought of things coming to a halt is already right there.
And I said, “That's really amazing and interesting.” And I said, “I'm going to tell you what it meant to me.” So it's a picture, you know, for people listening, of just farm equipment sitting in the snow, just sitting still in the snow. The sky is cloudy, the trees are leafless. And I said, “What it reminds me actually of, peace, because it is the moment where the world is quiet and no war is happening, and no struggle is going on. It's just sitting quietly.” And I love that kind of thing.
So I thought it was so interesting that, like I was saying about the perspectives of standing on different sides of what people pull out of these things. And that is, to me, is very important because whether we saw it differently or not, we both saw a mood that it had created in us. And I love that we had that conversation during that workshop.
Cevan:
I love that poem, and I'm so glad that you chose it. And these paintings and poems at several points, <laugh> like, brought me to tears that I was reading. And I found in that one, particularly, that I did see that sadness, but I also felt it was kind of an overwhelming feeling because, it wasn't the end….
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Very good.
Cevan:
It was, it was a story of continuing on, but there's a kind of letting go involved.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Very good.
Cevan:
There's a letting go.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
And it's, at many points in this book, you understand that things are not under your control. Whether it's your children taking up the farm, whether it's the arrival of the next, you know, the when of the next season, whether it's losing the crop, there's a letting go…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
Which is overwhelming, and overpowering, and yet, not the end of the story.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes, <laugh> exactly.
Cevan:
And, that is an incredible emotion to try and grapple with.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
And I don't think we have a lot of practice at it.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
No, not at all.
And think about that, that farmers live it.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Every day of their lives, if they get up in the morning, like, I mean, some farmers are like, “Oh yeah, I needed to work for 10 hours today, but it started raining and I only got four.” And every day, there's something that they have to go, “Okay, I have to let that go for now and pick it up again another time.”
I mean, it's, it's enormous, the lessons and the messages, it's just completely enormous, simply in farms. Like, that's what's so incredible. Like, so we can go all over the planet with things that people do and find similar lessons or even bigger lessons, whatever. But even in, in the one aspect, I mean the one subject of farming, has all these incredible messages that speak to the energy and the force and the determination of the human spirit. And the understanding that things are not within our control, you know. Those are great lessons that people need to learn.
Cevan:
They're great lessons, and they're also lessons that are understood, and known, and felt, in ways that we don't often practice.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Very good.
Cevan:
And poetry (and painting) is one of those ways.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
And it speaks much more than the words that we use every day.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. That is very true. That's right. Yeah. That's great.
So I think I'll read, there's a poem I'm gonna read, the one from the mound of dirt. So it's called, “A Simple Mound of Earth- the Completeness of Who We Are” [painting and poem of Akiva Silver’s Twisted Tree Farm, Spencer, New York]:
When we present ourselves to the world
what is initially viewed
is a shape,
a form,
a shell.
We speak with voices,
convey thoughts and ideas
and engage through physical expressions.
But even these things about us,
these things that others can see,
do not complete who we are.
Behind our simple shells
lies something more.
Something that is forever churning,
growing, regenerating.
It is what some might call the heart,
the soul,
the spirit of who we are.
It is what completes us-
what truly tells the story of
US.
Our completeness is not stagnant,
it is an energy
that exists inside of,
and is the depth of us,
part of the invisible composition
of that which is observable.
Our completeness
is electric,
kinetic,
thermal,
chemical,
and potential.
It keeps us in a constant state of change,
growth,
and transformation.
It seeds us with the capacity to become,
and to become again.
A simple mound of earth
is like us.
What we see,
what we observe,
is not its completeness.
A simple amount of earth,
the stalks that stand in it,
the roots beneath it,
the moisture that moves through it,
the air that softly touches it
and more,
is its completion.
It is like us.
It has a heart,
a soul,
and a spirit.
[sound of flipping page]
Cevan:
Mmm. <quietly, after a pause> Is there anything else that we should mention, that we haven't yet?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Well, if any of your listeners are interested in the book, they can email me. Um, and you have that email so they could contact you. And I think that not, you know, I talk about this book in the way I do, not because I wrote it, but because there was something that was coming through me that was speaking to me from, for the farmers, through the earth, through the land, that came out in this book.
And I think it's worth reading, and certainly worth looking at Tommy's paintings. And so and so that's what I wanted to say.
And thank everyone who's listening. And thank you, Cevan, for having me on.
Cevan:
Thank you so much for being here. And I did want to finish up by very clearly sharing how people can support you and Tommy's work.
So, the book is available for purchase...
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. It's through me and Tommy.
Cevan:
And we will share the links and the information.
The book is absolutely gorgeous and touching.
And these are beautiful, beautiful thoughts to be beginning our season of thanks, and thinking of the land that we are so fortunate to be sharing, to be guests on for the time that we are here, and to be reflecting on the food that has been so carefully grown, and with much labor, and love.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Thank you very much. And happy holidays to everybody.
Cevan:
Thank you so much.
[Audio recording of a forest with wild birds and two small rushing forest brooks fades into background]
Cevan:
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our website, kinderpublic.com, for more information about our guest and the topic, as well as a full transcript of the conversation, which can be found on the podcast page.
Captioned episodes of all of our interviews are also available on our Youtube channel, where we are @kinderpublic. We are also on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, and we’d love to hear from you there!
If you would like to find more information about the importance of small and medium sized and family farms, we have linked a number of episodes covering this topic along with further resources in our episode notes. These links include information on the 2023 Farm Bill (which has been delayed in the legislative process, and will now be the 2024 Farm Bill).
Please help us advocate for legislation that supports farms using climate resilient methods, land-based strategies for carbon draw down, and conservation practices. Ensuring land access equity, training for these practices, and funding for healthy food for all will directly impact our national food security, and climate change resilience, and the health of our population, along with other critical issues.
I’m Cevan Castle, and my guest has been Reverend Peaches Gillette.
Please take extra care, and we wish everyone a happy winter season.
[Sounds of forest with small rushing brooks and wild bird sounds fade out]
Works cited in this episode:
Beers, Tommy, and I. Peaches Gillette. Walking the Land: A Loving Tribute to Family Farms. Beers and Gillette, 2023.
Mentioned in this episode:
Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center 2023 Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference
Additional thanks to:
Sound effects and ambience in this episode thanks to the incredible sound work of Joseph Sardin and www.bigsoundbank.com
Find more information on the climate and food security importance of small scale agriculture and family farms in these Towards a Kinder Public episodes: