S4 Ep_035 Steps to Inclusion for Individuals with Down Syndrome, with Emily Mondschein, Executive Director, GiGi’s Playhouse Buffalo NY, Pt.2
Down syndrome is the most common of the chromosomal disorders, and yet, it is often the subject of misinformation and openly discriminatory policies. Our discussion with Emily Mondschein, Executive Director at GiGi’s Playhouse Buffalo, continues as she shares more strategies for disability inclusion. We discuss:
How medical practitioners can play a significant role in changing discriminatory attitudes towards individuals with Down syndrome;
The crucial role that early and elementary education can perform to radically improve inclusion for all disabled and neurodiverse individuals;
Why updated guidance on the needs of individuals with Down syndrome is an essential component of inclusion;
A call to doctors, teachers, administrators, and parents to help achieve equitable access of public space for disabled individuals.
Bio:
Emily Mondschein is the proud mother of two boys, one who was born with Down syndrome. She has a master’s degree in education and has founded 2 not for profits that serve individuals with Down syndrome. She currently serves as the Executive Director for GiGi’s Playhouse in Buffalo, New York. She is a member and leader on multiple councils, both local and national, that support individuals with disabilities. Emily works alongside medical providers to ensure that patients with Down syndrome are receiving optimal medical care. She also provides education to clinicians around best practices for delivering the prenatal diagnosis. Emily is passionate about inclusive education and supports schools in providing these learning environments. She has advocated to congress on behalf of individuals with Down syndrome and is currently working on legislation to better impact the lives of the disability community.
“
I read a statistic and it shocked me, 17% of people with intellectual disabilities are included in the classroom, and 17% of people with intellectual disabilities have jobs.
And I thought that was such an interesting correlation. So that means, there's really only 17% of people out and about, intermingling with the neurotypical population.
So, yes, there's a misunderstanding of Down syndrome.
And it's not going to change until our teachers, until our doctors, until administrators, until fellow parents of people with disabilities start saying, we deserve in every sense to be a part of every scenario.”
-Emily Mondschein
Transcript
Season 4, Episode 35 (Pt. 2 of 4) Steps to Inclusion for Individuals with Down Syndrome, with Emily Mondschein, Executive Director, GiGi’s Playhouse Buffalo NY, Pt. 2
Emily Mondschein:
I read a statistic and it shocked me, 17% of people with intellectual disabilities are included in the classroom, and 17% of people with intellectual disabilities have jobs.
And I thought that was such an interesting correlation. So that means, there's really only 17% of people out and about, intermingling with the neurotypical population.
So, yes, there's a misunderstanding of Down syndrome.
And it's not going to change until our teachers, until our doctors, until administrators, until fellow parents of people with disabilities start saying, we deserve in every sense to be a part of every scenario.
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, host:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
This episode is continuing the 4th Season of this podcast, which takes a close look at the interweaving of social, spatial, and organizational exclusion.
Our conversation with Emily Mondschein, the Executive Director at GiGi’s Playhouse Buffalo, continues today as she shares more strategies for inclusion, and more about her incredible work on disability rights.
Emily works at the forefront of the disability inclusion, education, and supports movement in the United States. She is also the proud mother of two boys, one born with Down syndrome. She has a master’s degree in education and has founded 2 not-for-profits that serve individuals with Down syndrome. She currently serves as the Executive Director for GiGi’s Playhouse in Buffalo, New York. She is a member and leader on multiple councils, local and national, that support individuals with disabilities.She is passionate about inclusive education and supports schools in providing these learning environments. She has advocated to the United State Congress on behalf of individuals with Down syndrome and is currently working on legislation to better impact the lives of the disability community.
In this episode, we talk about some of the reasons that the Down syndrome community is not equitably accessing public space. Emily explains how discriminatory policies impact individuals with Down syndrome in the early stages of life; the powerful role that early education should perform to radically improve inclusion for all disabled and neurodiverse individuals; and why written guidance specifically pertaining to disability supports and awareness for the Down syndrome community is an important step forward..
My 5 year old makes an appearance during our interview (only to take my iPhone), so you’ll hear that too.
I am really honored to share the second part of this conversation with Emily Mondschein. Thank you so much for joining us!
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan:
I would not be surprised to overhear someone saying, “But I've never seen an individual of Down syndrome in my community, not in the gym, not in the grocery store, not at the dog park, not at my workplace, and not in my children's school building.”
And then assume that individuals with Down syndrome are not able to take part in those community resources or occupations, and have no interest in being there. I imagine this assumption is reinforced by a lack of visibility during our childhoods, in our early learning environments as well.
Speaking from my lived experience as a parent, and also as someone with a professional interest in how public space works for all people, the Down syndrome community is made up of people with a lot of varied interests and talents.
Is Down syndrome misunderstood by our society <laughing> (which we have already established- that it is) to the extent that individuals are excluded from participation? What is going wrong with our shared use of public space?
Emily Mondschein:
Well, as you've said, our shared use of public space, well, that starts from the very beginning, right? And in our doctor's offices with these conversations. And when these conversations are causing people to make decisions that can't be reversed, we have less people with Down syndrome, right?
So, I believe the number is, we have a 33% reduction rate in the population. Part of the reason people aren't seeing people with Down syndrome is because it's not as common as it could be. You know, it’s a condition that’s the most common condition.
Beyond that, when we're not creating an environment where… when we have a five-year-old or a four-year-old going into preschool or going into kindergarten, we have a huge table of people fighting over whether this child should be in the room, as opposed to a segregated setting, I mean, what do we expect?
In the very beginning, when it's the most easiest, most basic, any teacher could do, we're putting them elsewhere. So we're starting there. Oh and then, and then, we're telling parents of neurotypical children, please do your child a favor and talk about disability with them. Please teach them how to do this. Teach them that these children are just like them, but have differences. But yet, we're not putting their children with these children!
Cevan:
Right.
Emily Mondschein:
I don't mean… to some degree I blame the parents of neurotypical children if they're not having conversations, but we can only expect so much, when our schools, when parents of children with disabilities, aren't advocating for their children to be in society with everybody else.
It's such a sensitive topic, and I understand that we're afraid, that we're nervous to put them in places where we feel like maybe they won't get the supports they need, but...
And I'm rambling a little bit, because I’m passionate about this one, but it starts at the very beginning.
I read a statistic and it shocked me, 17% of people with intellectual disabilities are included in the classroom, and 17% of people with intellectual disabilities have jobs.
Cevan:
Hmmm.
Emily Mondschein:
And I thought that was such an interesting correlation. So that means, there's really only 17% of people out and about, intermingling with the neurotypical population.
So, yes, there's a misunderstanding of Down syndrome. People think they're fun-loving, happy people who are like kids their whole lives. A lot of people think that- not everybody, that's wrong to say that- but it's a common stereotype or misconception on the population.
And it's not going to change until our teachers, until our doctors, until administrators, until fellow parents of people with disabilities start saying, we deserve in every sense to be a part of every scenario.
Cevan:
Right.
I would like to just break down a couple of the really important points you just made for people who may not have children, or may not have children with disabilities or intellectual disabilities or developmental delays, and who may not have personal experience with an individual with Down syndrome- which as you mentioned, they may not have because there is a reduction in pregnancies when a possible intellectual disability has been identified by your physiological condition during pregnancy, if that's the accurate way to say it.
So when we're saying that people are not included, or only 17% of people are included in the classroom, and we're talking about the very earliest stages, we're talking about preschool and kindergarten, right?
Emily Mondschein:
Yes. Right.
Cevan:
We're talking about four and five year olds.
Emily Mondschein:
Or, you could even go further back. I've heard of daycares not being able to take people with disabilities into their settings.
Cevan:
And, what is it that we are suggesting that kids can't do as four year olds, let's say, that the general education, neurotypical kids can do, as four year olds? Math? Is it chemistry? Is it <sarcasm, laughing> physics? What is it that they can't do?
Emily Mondschein:
Well, sometimes the potty training thing comes up…
Cevan:
Uh-huh…
Emily Mondschein:
…Which we know, we can't. It's discriminatory. It's illegal to not allow access to a classroom because you're not potty trained.
Cevan:
That's a physical disability, right? Or a… delay?
Emily Mondschein:
Right. Yep. And there are supports that we can provide to make that process really developmentally appropriate for the person with a disability. So, but that's one.
I don't know, weakness in muscle, maybe…I was once told by an integrated program that my son might not be a good fit, because when they walk out to the playground, he won't be able to use the stairs like everybody else.
These things that they're thinking of, these barriers to access that they're not finding the simple solutions for. They're just kind of shutting down the scenario, period.
Cevan:
Like a ramp for someone with mobility challenges, that may also need to access that, whether they're a grownup in that environment… A teacher could be someone in a wheelchair or with a mobility issue.
Emily Mondschein:
Correct.
Cevan:
Or it could be a child.
Emily Mondschein:
Yes.
Cevan:
And they weren't willing to provide a ramp?
Emily Mondschein:
No, it was a barrier.
Cevan:
Ah. <sarcasm>
Emily Mondschein:
It was a barrier.
Cevan:
Mmm. <disapproving>
Emily Mondschein:
And I said, well, you could hold his hand, and sort of help him <laugh> up three or four stairs, but…
Cevan:
Right- oh! [Only] three or four stairs, okay! <disapproving> Yes!
Emily Mondschein:
Yeah I know, it wasn’t alot.
Cevan:
We’re not like…. <laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
Well, I was like, yeah, this is not, I can't do…. I was like, this is not a good fit. We're not going to, we're not going to do this. <laugh>
But I will say too, there are some wonderful providers out there who are like… I also should say with a caveat, that when I was a teacher, and I did the inclusion room, I was like, I mean, there were certain things that the child couldn't do. And to my opinion, I felt like, well, they shouldn't be here. You can't find the page in the book. You don't know which side to open it, or we're all going, you're not going?
And then as a teacher, I would be like, lookit. I've got this person at this reading level, this person at this reading level. How am I supposed to work with this person? This person probably needs to go to a different room and would benefit from it.
But I will also say that no one came to me and said, never called a separate room a segregated setting, which is what it is, and which is how I see it now, but never came to me and said, you know, other students will learn from this person who is different, and this is a social injustice and this is… nobody brought these points to me. So I didn't see it.
And then when I had my son and I went to a conference, I wanted to just sit there and sob because I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I totally missed this. I did this for a long time and I didn't see it. It was like such a thing went off in me.
Cevan:
Right… But did you have support along with the child in the classroom that needed that extra care?
Emily Mondschein:
I did. I did. But it often times felt like it was just too much. You know, like, the behavior was too much. It was taking away from me, or the special education teacher didn't have enough supports. Maybe the special education teacher didn't have enough supports to handle this, or…
You know, I think it was just a lack of us sitting down and saying, well, we can properly support this student within the classroom, this is how it should be.
I guess we didn't see that this is how it should be. What we saw was that they should be in a different setting because that's why those settings are there. Those settings are there for people who don't learn at the same pace as everybody else. For low students.
Cevan:
For “low” students, is that what you said?
Emily Mondschein:
Yes.
Cevan:
Ahhh.
Emily Mondschein:
Common phrase, “The student is so low.” You know…
Cevan:
Oh…
Emily Mondschein:
I've said it myself as well. The student is so low. How can I teach reading? They're so low. They're three grades below grade level.
So I remember that person, in me. So when I see now, I understand. I absolutely understand the pressure, but I also understand, and I'm here to say, that there are different ways to do it. And here is your support, and here is how you can include students with disabilities, you know.
Cevan:
Because, you never had a picture of what it could look like, right? Or what it should look like.
Emily Mondschein:
No!
Cevan:
There was no picture of that alternative.
Emily Mondschein:
Right. Mm-hmm.
And I also remember, on the inside, what was going on in the self-contained rooms, and thinking “Hm-mm, that's not the same as what's going on in the gen ed setting.” And so when I had my son, I thought, I don't want him to be in the self-contained room because I know it's… I know it’s different in there.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
I know there's more behaviors. I know the curriculum is not as diverse. I know… it's like, it's their own world.
And I know how students react to them when they show up, because they're not around all day, and then they just show up for art. And nobody can make connections, meaningful connections. And they just, they almost stand out more because why weren't you here all day? Why are you just popping in for art?
Cevan:
“I haven't seen you all day and you don't know how to interact with me, and I don't know how to interact with you.”
Emily Mondschein:
Right. “But I know you're different. That's why you just came for only 45 minutes.”
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And, “You're probably less than me because you're not in my room, which is a great room.”
Emily Mondschein:
Yep.
And I've heard kids say, I don't want to go in there. I feel I'm embarrassed. I don't want to go in that setting. I feel embarrassed. I feel dumb. Sad. It's sad. It's horrible.
Cevan:
Yeah. So I think this is a really important thing that you're describing, which is, the segregation when we're young and we have the brain that is ready to build bridges, to learn things, to stretch, and we don't have that opportunity to interact.
And then when we are grownups, we see the same pattern represented because no one had that opportunity when they were children.
Emily Mondschein:
Yep.
Cevan:
So if I didn't know how to interact with you when I was a 4-year-old, and we could both come together around this shared love of a certain object or experience, I definitely don't know how to come together with you now.
Emily Mondschein:
No, I know. It's so….
Cevan:
Hm-mmm.
Emily Mondschein:
…It's so hard. It's so tough.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Emily Mondschein:
And then, you know, the reality is everyone's going to be disabled.
Cevan:
Yes.
Emily Mondschein:
So you're also going to have a society that's not so kind to you, when you're 70 or 80, because…
Cevan:
Right!
Emily Mondschein:
…You're not used to people being out, and about having to wait for you, having to hold, all these things, not sympathetic, compassionate, or even just understanding of it.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. <Sigh>
We've had a couple moments in the past where I've talked with people about the process of inclusion, and one of those people was Janae Romano, who is an advocate for people with Complex Communication needs, particularly within the Rett syndrome community.
Emily Mondschein:
Oh wow.
Cevan:
And Rajiv Fernandez, an architect and artist/activist, and Dr. Rose Perry, a neuroscientist and physiologist, and they co-founded a toy company that is trying to improve representation in our media and access to toys.
And it's very interesting because everyone- and now this includes your expertise on inclusion and education and the Down syndrome community- everyone agrees that inclusion happens when we are young. It happens when we're kids. And if it's truly a societal value, then we implement it when, as you said so beautifully, it's easy to do because we have a group of people who are all developing together
Emily Mondschein:
Mm-hmm. Completely.
Cevan:
This has just been an amazing discussion.
I think that we've established that the way that we format early education and the way that we fail to integrate children is one of the obstacles to inclusion that we've created.
Is that the primary obstacle, or just to kind of wrap up that idea, are there other things that we're doing that are not allowing individuals with Down syndrome to be more present and participative in our public space?
Emily Mondschein:
So, those are always the things… that is the main thing, to me, is inclusion, because that is the system through which people come together from a young age.. regularly. They spend more time in school than at home.
But that being said, sometimes it's hard. You probably know this as well, it's hard to take your child out into the community, or certain places just aren't feasible for your child.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Emily Mondschein:
And so, you might not bring them because it's not an enjoyable experience for you. Maybe you don't want to walk from all the way to the back of the parking lot into the store, or maybe it is too chaotic in the store, maybe it's too bright in the store, maybe all kinds of things.
You know, and ADA did a lot to make public spaces more accessible, but I think sometimes we can have a new wave of it, for what we've learned since that time. And the sensory piece is a real challenge for families, and it's a reason to not do it, because it's just hard to navigate. It's hard to do.
I mean, that's another piece as well.
Cevan:
Absolutely.
Emily Mondschein:
Are we accessible?
Cevan:
Yeah.
Emily Mondschein:
Right.
Cevan:
Yeah, definitely. <laugh>
Emily Mondschein:
And I know there's handicap parking, but, you know…
Cevan:
Yeah!
Emily Mondschein:
You’ve got to go through a lot to get a handicap... You’ve got to jump through… And there's only two spots…
Cevan:
Right!
Emily Mondschein:
But our kiddos with Down syndrome, they tire easily. And boys- I shouldn't even say this, it sounds like I'm- but I do see that, especially, the young boys from four to eight are more erratic behaviorally. They're just more likely to run off. They're more active. And so navigating them from the end of the parking lot into the store, into the shopping cart, through the store, I mean, it's not going to be possible for some families. It's really challenging.
So what can we do for those people? Because, they should be able to leave their home.
Cevan:
Yes, absolutely.
I think that we definitely, the way that we arrange parking, the way that we arrange traffic, the way that we continue to privilege cars over human movement is a huge issue.
And it's a safety issue.
Emily Mondschein:
That's a great way to put it.
Cevan:
Right?
And it's a safety issue for all kids.
But if you have a child that needs more supervision, more careful supervision, then you're exhausted. You're just exhausted trying to move through that space, just as you said.
And yes, I think the sensory thing is huge. We know a lot about lighting. We know a lot about sound. We know that we need to move into spaces with less stimulation…All of us do.
You know, and it's really interesting to me that we put the burden on the child, or the individual that is stressed, or the individual that is exhausted…. You could be an older person. You could be, you know, a person who's dealing with a chronic illness, like…
Emily Mondschein:
Right!
Cevan:
And we put the burden on those people…
Emily Mondschein:
I know! <empathetic>
Cevan:
Who are together, collectively, probably greater than the so-called “typically abled” community at any given time… <laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
Mm-hmm!
Cevan:
And say, “You're just going to have to cope, because…”
Emily Mondschein:
Right. <laughing>
Cevan:
Because you're not… <laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
Yeah!
Cevan:
This is your problem.
Emily Mondschein:
I know! I shouldn't be sweating by the time we leave Wegmans, you know? Or Chops. Like, it's not a…
Cevan:
Yeah. <laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
It’s not a physical activity. <laughing>
Cevan:
<laughing> Right, right. Exactly. Exactly.
Emily Mondschein:
So that's a piece to it, as well.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Emily Mondschein:
Not the biggest piece, but certainly, a piece.
Cevan:
We've talked a lot about education already, but I just want to ask if there's any other comments that you want to make, that we haven't covered up to this point?
Emily Mondschein:
I want to say something I was thinking about when I said this idea that younger kiddos, especially, a lot of times I see it more in boys than girls, the erratic behavior piece.
And, I think, a lot of schools will work with the child who doesn't have behaviors, who is meek and mild.
But I think the realistic situation is that there are behaviors in our population, and I think it's such a big barrier. And so, if we could- right from the beginning- recognize that this is coming: you know, we might not attend, we might get up and elope, we might…
Cevan:
For non-educators, “attending” means… Can you explain?
Emily Mondschein:
Paying attention. Paying attention. Seeming like you're playing alongside, playing making friends, playing with peers, being appropriate.
There's this erratic behavior that I think really gets in the way of learning for students with Down syndrome.
Cevan:
Is that also called social behavior, by any chance?
Emily Mondschein:
Yes!
Cevan:
Instead of erratic behavior, <laughing> is that just socialization?
Emily Mondschein:
Exactly. Exactly. <laugh>
Cevan:
Isn't that supposed to be the forte of the school environment, is socialization?
Emily Mondschein:
Right. Socialization.
And I think these kids throw the teachers for a loop, the school for a loop. They don't know what to do. They don't know how to handle it.
And I just think if we come forward and realize- <sigh> as with all kids- we have to be a little creative. We have to maybe think outside of the box. We can't chitchat all day long. We have to have movement… we have to do what is developmentally appropriate for all kids, and so that's movement, that's being motivated, that's being interesting. That's teaching, as you said, socialization. Some people socialize very easily. Others have no idea what to say to someone.
So, modeling, modeling, I think we just really have to be heavy handed on the fact that there may be some struggles for the teacher and admin if they're not really learning about, you know, strategies that will focus on socialization, focus on behaviors, focus on all that- that's going to be key. And if you get that in place, you're going to have success.
But if you just walk into it, like it's your classroom, and this is how we've always done it, and “I don't know what to do,” it's not going to work.
And parents see that, and then don't want to do it.
And I said that it was the responsibility of parents to make sure their children are included, but I also completely understand why they don't! Because they don't want to put their child into a setting where they're wetting their pants because nobody's taking them to the bathroom, that's degrading.
Or where, you know, they're being looked at as weird or freakish because they're having a meltdown in the middle of the classroom. They're scared. And I get that.
So, I think this is the crux of the inclusion conversation, especially for kindergartners and pre-k. You know, and so, I think that needs to be- first and foremost- discussed by everybody, as the key to success.
Cevan:
That really resonates with me too, because I was told- <laugh> the thing that made me worry was- “Well, we just want him to feel successful, and if you don't put him in the segregated setting, you're depriving him of the opportunity to feel successful.”
And I'm like, “Really?”<incredulous>
Yeah.
Emily Mondschein:
Yeah. That doesn't make sense.
It's just… it's okay to not do everything the same that you did the year before, you know. We can kind of do things differently when a new person comes along who has some different ways about them. You know? That's okay.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Emily Mondschein:
It's not going to kill you, or, you know… <pause> with the proper support. We need to have the proper support, as well. We really need to have buy-in from the top.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Emily Mondschein:
And we can get into all that more, on our next call.
But, I just, I don't know, sometimes the barriers I see are most commonly- with the Down syndrome population- behavior. And maybe people don't realize that, maybe they're expecting this kid- because we don't know about Down syndrome- so, maybe they're expecting this loving, social kid who's going to be just fine. And I think that's where the fall off happens a lot.
Cevan:
‘Just fine’ meaning, ‘compliant’?
Emily Mondschein:
Compliant <affirmative>, ummm…
Cevan:
Obedient?
Emily Mondschein:
Maybe….
Cevan:
Quiet?
Emily Mondschein:
Yeah. Yeah!
‘Just fine’ like, you know… there's always a handful of people who fall outside of the ‘just fine’ category, but I just think it gives them a run for their money and they're surprised and they didn't know what to expect, and it's a bad situation for everybody.
I'm not excusing it, but I'm just saying I see that that’s…
Cevan:
I agree. I understand. Yeah. You can't plan for it if you don't know what is likely to happen.
Emily Mondschein:
Hence, why we need guidelines. We need a better understanding. We need professional development. We need all that.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Yep. That's great. Thank you so much for sharing all of those ideas and your expertise…
Emily Mondschein:
Absolutely.
Cevan:
I'm really looking forward to our next conversation about the guidelines that you have developed.
Emily Mondschein:
Yes, I am as well. I'm excited for that.
This was wonderful too. You beautifully stated various statements or questions that you were going to ask me, but I appreciated the way you sort of recapped each one, or pulled back and explained things that you forget sometimes, that not everybody is queued in to the topic, or not everybody lives the life.
Cevan:
<laughing> I’m glad if that was helpful. <Cevan’s child with Down syndrome appears in the zoom window>
Emily Mondschein:
<laughing> Yeah.
I just see the top of his head.
Cevan:
<laughing> I know… <laughing harder>
Emily Mondschein:
Just some hair sticking up…
There he is!
Cevan:
There he is! <affirmative>
Emily Mondschein:
Hi buddy!
Cevan:
Can you say hi?
Emily Mondschein:
Hi Galen!
What does Galen like… what are you watching on the phone? What's does he like to watch?
Cevan:
He loves…. There's a channel called “That's Amazing” on YouTube, which is all teenagers doing trick shots with, like, get the frisbee through the hoop and knock the basketball off the thing, you know, and like... And so he's really into these boys doing trick shots with things.
Emily Mondschein:
Oh, I'll have to show that to Paul. I bet he'd like it too.
Cevan:
Yeah! <laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
That's cool.
Cevan:
They're like millionaires now, these children, so.
Emily Mondschein:
Oh my gosh. I know. <laughing>
Cevan:
Yeah. Yeah. So, that's one of his favorites. He's kind of an active sporty guy, so.
Emily Mondschein:
He is! Okay. He's on the move, huh?
Cevan:
Yeah.<laughing>
Emily Mondschein:
Good for him. That's excellent.
Cevan:
Yeah. Alright.
Thank you again.
Emily Mondschein:
Yes, thank you. I'll talk to you soon.
Cevan:
It was so nice talking to you. <laughing> Bye.
Emily Mondschein:
Yes absolutely. Bye Galen!
Cevan:
<high voice> Bye!
Emily Mondschein:
<high voice> Bye!
<laughing> Bye-bye.
Cevan:
Bye!
[Audio clip of voices of kindergarteners on playground fades in]
Cevan:
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I’m Cevan Castle, and my guest has been Emily Mondschein, Executive Director of Gigi’s Playhouse, in Buffalo, New York, and a member of the National Down Syndrome Society’s inclusive education Guidelines Working Group. Our conversation will continue in the next episode.
Please take extra care, we’ll meet you back here next week!
[Audio clip of playground fades out]